The Shadow

Did a solo raid today down at the Quayside market, Scilon's have started doing the stress test again after months of inactivity. Market inspecters got snotty, told me I could not stand on the market if I had no insurance. A massive argument ensued, and although I was 100% sure they were bullshitting and trying it on bacuse I was alone, I moved as they threatened to call the police. Previously, we have had 3+ groups down there and never been asked to move.

I have checked the Market's rules and regulations on the webpage; as I suspected, "all traders must have £5m Public Liability Insurance in order to trade", Just traders, it SPECIFIES traders. Incidentally, after bothering me, the inspectors went over to the Scis and I saw £20 being handed over (market pitch dues I expect) but I distinctly heard one inspector say "Technically we're not allowed to let you stand here without it", and since the inspectors later told me that the market stalls don't need street trading permits, I can only assume that the Scilons did not have insurance documentation with them. And I'd guess they bluffed it out and said, "Yeah, we do have the insurance though" and the inspectors have let them off.

ANYWAY

The regulations for the market are online HERE: http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf...lawquaysidemkt

From reading these, I find no reason why Anonymous cannot stand on the market.

There's a bit about 'blocking the pathways' which I wasn't doing and they didn't mention anyway.
There's a bit about not flyering, we checked that last year and have never flyered.
I also noticed there's one that says we can't have signs, well we have never been pulled up on that before, and I wasn't today.
The sections regarding 'Use of Space', I interpret as applying only to traders and not to pedestrians, unless lawfags want to tell me any different.

The one that interested me was Section 12.

12. No person shall to the annoyance of any person ring any bell or blow any horn or use any other noisy instrument or amplifier or loudspeaker to attract the attention or custom of any person to any sale or to any goods intended for sale.

I had a megaphone with me today and no mention was made of it. Now, as for the above legislation, my interpretation of it is that it does not cover any use of noisy equipment for any purpose OTHER than to attract people to a sale or to goods intended for sale. It says nothing about using them for public information or anything like that.

So my question is, under the letter of that regulation, can we get away with using a megaphone? I mean, if it went to court, would our argument hold up?

Sponge

Not a lawyerfag but to me these appear to be byelaws aimed mostly at people trading or attempting to trade/advertise, not customers visiting the stalls...... for instance like you were just popping over to have a nice chat with the scientologists about scientology and about David Miscavige beating his staff etc etc.

My answer to the inspectors would be, "I'm am not a trader, I am not attempting to trade, I am just a customer visiting the stalls, and this one, the "stress test" stall, interests me particularly. Please call the police, I'm sure they will thank you for wasting their time".

As regards the megaphone, I wouldn't use it purely because it might annoy the other traders in close proximity who are just trying to make a living.

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3rdMan

Well, technically your not selling anything, if by sell it means attempting to exchange goods for money. Is there a law or reg doc that clearly defines the activity of "selling" and how they define "trader?" If so, I'd be interested in what they define it as.

Also, any chance you had a recording device of some kind, perhaps that recorded the Scilon/Inspector dealing?

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The Shadow

I did consider that; I'm not a total cunt, after all :p

I'd rather have the signs (especially if we're close enough to them to not need the megaphone) which they've never had a problem with. But even though they have never stopped us using signs, there is a regulation that says they can. Now if I have a legal leg to stand on with megaphones, I want to know, and I want them to know. Because we might be able to say "Look, the regulations say we can't use the signs, but if you let us use them, we won't be forced to use the megaphone, which legally we can".

The Shadow

No, sadly I had turned the camera off after some initial filming. I heard one of the inspectors later on say "I think I'd be upset if they were filming me" as she was reaching for her phone to call the cops.

Antagone

Shadow, is the market owned by the local council?

Northern Ireland Anonymous
The day the judge tells the bailiff to retrieve the booster chair for the witness stand will be the day my boner is so huge I will die from lack of bloodflow to the rest of my body - Anonymous

Sponge

Does the definition of "signs" extend to the wearing of T-shirts or flourescent jackets saying "Warning: Scientology! You are Entering a CULT ZONE" and suchlike ?

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Sponge

Important point especially regarding filming. If the council "own" the area in the same way they "own" the public pavement then they can't stop anyone filming.
They could still argue that they own the event but since the market event byelaws make no mention of filming then I don't see how they can object.

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Antagone

Well I was thinking more along the lines of giving grief to council members and reminding them they're elected representatives.

Of course you do realise there's nothing stopping Anonymous forking out twenty quid and setting up their own stall? You can have the fliers sitting for people to take and the market inspectors couldn't do a damned thing.

Northern Ireland Anonymous
The day the judge tells the bailiff to retrieve the booster chair for the witness stand will be the day my boner is so huge I will die from lack of bloodflow to the rest of my body - Anonymous

The Shadow

I've been advised about custom printed t-shirts instead of signs, also if we set up a petition against the Scis, we can apply to the Council to be allowed to collect signatures on the market, that will not cost a penny.

Yes, the market is controlled by the local Council

Sponge

Can you put up a Google Earth link and indicate the extent of the market so we can see the area you are talking about?

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Antagone

Well Shadow if the monkey is being pissy then go annoy the organ grinder. Hell I'd stand outside the market with a megaphone and start shouting how about a cult is being allowed to operate freely in there.

Write to every member of the council and tell them you want to know their thoughts on it all.

Northern Ireland Anonymous
The day the judge tells the bailiff to retrieve the booster chair for the witness stand will be the day my boner is so huge I will die from lack of bloodflow to the rest of my body - Anonymous

The Shadow

The Quayside market operates on large stretch of the Quayside, from the Swing Bridge on one end to the Millennium Bridge on the other (as shown by the red line). The main roads in/out are blocked to all traffic except traders' cars/vans and the Quaylink bus service (or the 'Stealth Bus' as I like to call it due to its near-silent hybrid engine) between the BLUE crosses.



Bit closer up; the wide pavement area along the waterfront is the 'market territory', ie all stalls are set up along the wide bit, all the way along. The pavement across the street is standard width, that's where I was asked to GTF over to.



The exact spot where the trouble took place (isn't Street View a wonderful thing?), green cross represents me, the red box is the stress cart.

Sponge

Oh FFS, so it's not some special twee little closed off quayside with a way in/way out, it's just a great big public path with a fucking road running alongside. Personally, I'd tell the market inspectors to fuck right off.

or get a boat.....

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Namenlos

If it helps, Trap and I duo raided a market area last week.
We were told we couldn't use megaphones (as int erupts other businesses, which is understandable) but otherwise *5* police officers have had no problem with it, so tell them to GTFO next time.

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The Shadow

That boat is pretty EPIN

EDIT- Yeah Namenlos, Police have never pulled me about the trollcannon, they've seen it and not said a word. Also we used it outside a theatre (Jive Aces raid) and both the street wardens and the theatre manager didn't care

Anonymous

Yeah, but that was you.

Remember that everything shadow does is full of epic fail ;)

Im not a scientologist but

Megaphone is both

The Shadow

True, but I look damn good doing it :D

The Shadow

Yeah, but the regulation specifies use to entice people's attention to a sale or to goods intended for sale. Nothing more