_You_

The French trials. The TIME article. The SP Times articles. KESQ. Xenophon. Anonymous. What do all of these have in common, besides the fact that all of these things have thoroughly raped Scientology until it was a bleeding mess writhing on the floor in a pool of its own shit?

The response. Each and every time Scientology was criticized, convicted, investigated, or even asked a tough question, Scientology has claimed that it was a victim of 'religious persecution' and that its 'religious freedom' was violated. What does that mean, anyway? To quote Encyclopedia Dramatica, which hit the nail on the head:

This kind of mentality is painfully obvious in the Scilons, and has caused them to claim they are being persecuted whenever something doesn't go their way.

Yes, religious persecution is indeed a hot button in developed nations. If we hear about some poor Jew getting beaten to death by skinheads, people tend to get outraged. However, considering this, does being convicted of fraud, being criticized for human rights abuses, or being asked about Xenu constitute religious persecution as well?

TL;DR Does the 'religious persecution' card still hold water to the general public, and if so, how can we fix this?

A.Non Hubbard

The "religion angle" as Hubbard called it only works on people who aren't paying attention. You can recognize them for their tendency to bring up The Crusades (which ended in 1291) on Digg and compare them with Scientology human rights abuses (currently ongoing in 2009) and asking us why we aren't doing something about the Catholic Church.

Who Is David Miscavige?

Anon123456

its alive and well. had a conversation with a guy on reddit and he said it in every response.

how do we change it?

i don't know, it usually comes from people who don't know much about scientology or just dont like anonymous and pull the religious persecution card to try and win an argument.

DeathHamster

Oh, I thought you were talking about what Scientology's goons do when Fair Gaming. "Religious" persecution...

"They should be taxed, the bastards. They shouldn't be tax-free; we're subsidising them. I like your masks." -- Dr Lomax-Smith, Education Minister, South Australia

A.Non Hubbard

By asserting the fact that this has nothing do to with religion. Just as we expect a Catholic priest to be brought to secular justice for raping a child, or an Islamic extremist to be held accountable in court for committing a terrorist act on behalf of his interpretation of his faith, we too expect David Miscavige to be held accountable for human rights abuses.

Xenophon ended his speech with saying "there are no limits on what you can believe. There are limits on how you can act. It's called the law, and no one is above it."

This is not bigotry. It's called bringing criminals to justice.

Who Is David Miscavige?

tazor

I've noticed that too. I don't waste my time. They just want to blab and I don't like that shit. They are know it alls and made up their tiny little minds eons ago. Lost cause.

Scientology was just a joke written by hack science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. Xenu is the punch line.

Please! Don't get the fuck me out! At least let me be in the dome! ~Lily the Troll~

ClearwaterAnon

Xenophon's K.I.S.S. answer

"There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo.
Florida Chanology, Pix and Stuff

Anon123456

that didn't work in my case. it was all about religion to the guy i spoke to. i made it clear it was about abuses. he didn't want to hear it. he said we are lumping all scientologists together and that's why its religious persecution. he also said that our protest signs are mocking the religion. he also stated that by using the word cult we are attacking scientology as a whole.

Anon123456

yeah this guy ended up being a lost cause too. at one point he told me im an idiot and that hes a bigot hater. so i cut my losses and let him have it. he insisted that there is no policy of disconnection as well. said he read all about it on scientology myths. lol

so i ended our chat with a message for him.

"your not a bigot hater your just "that guy". you know the one that thinks his opinion trumps all. you know the type. the guy that thinks anything that comes out of his mouth is gospel while his supposed friends call him an asshole behind his back. the type that reads scientology myths like it was written by an unbiased third party. you know that guy who defends someone when they are wrong , just to be "that guy". perpetually superior and all knowing. the guy with the biggest mouth and the least amount of facts. apparently you don't know dick about Scientology and have an uncanny urge to throw the word bigot around because you like the way it sounds coming out of your mouth. ignorance isn't your problem its the narcissism.

ive spent plenty of time researching scientology. you go to scientology myths for your info. good luck finding the truth there.

no policy of disconnection?

"A Scientologist can become PTS by reason of being connected to someone that is antagonistic to Scientology or its tenets. In order to resolve the PTS condition, he either HANDLES the other person's antagonism (as covered in the materials on PTS handling) or, as a last resort when all attempts to handle have failed, he disconnects from the person. -HCO BULLETIN OF 10 SEPTEMBER 1983 "PTSness and Disconnection"

fuckin fool"

_You_

If they play the "religious persecution" card, i play the "Scientology is not a religion" card and i win everytime.

DeathHamster

Not a Scientologist but...?

"They should be taxed, the bastards. They shouldn't be tax-free; we're subsidising them. I like your masks." -- Dr Lomax-Smith, Education Minister, South Australia

Anon123456

exactly. but interestingly enough when i did a little research on his user name it turns out his father used to take scientology courses. none of my searches turned up anything about him, himself being a scilon.

3rdMan

You either got trolled by a handler trying to discourage you or that guy's ego was blocking his hearing. Let folks like him walk away with their views, is my advice. Plenty more people vocally give their support to us.

and Bob was there too, and bacon!

Where I used to lulz: http://chicagosaysno.forumup.com/ind...=chicagosaysno
Where I mine for lulz now: http://www.anonymousdc.com/forums/

http://www.vimeo.com/user939620/videos <<<my vids for Chicago and DC

A.Non Hubbard

Have you considered some people are inherently stupid?

We encountered a nutbar New Ager late last year. We went to hand him a flier and he'd have none of it. We mentioned this wasn't about religious beliefs but abuses that people who have no escape are subject to. He wouldn't listen -- the very idea a relatively-new "religion" could possibly be bad was impossible to him. Anything self-identified as a religion could not be bad after all, since religion to him was naturally a good thing that only is a force for good.

We had a 3 minute chat with him and we listed off the abuses and people who died and the court records and Operation Snow White and Operation Freakout... obvious cases of persecution to him. Then his bus arrived and he left.

There will forever be a segment of the population that no matter what the issue will always be contrarian. It could be out of self-interest or out of mental illness.

Who Is David Miscavige?

_You_

In one word: NO!

ChronicEnturbulator

"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."

DeathHamster

If he only does auditing and courses at the local org, then he wouldn't show up on the completion lists compiled from Scilon magazines.

It's happened before that some NASBs (Not A Scientologist But) have been seen entering the org later on in the day. :)

I suspect that they have a hatting checklist for conducting just that sort of dialog. (I'm not saying all the people like that are actually Scilons, but anyone who claims to have dug for the ludicrous ScientologyMyths site down under all the critical site just doesn't ring true.)

"They should be taxed, the bastards. They shouldn't be tax-free; we're subsidising them. I like your masks." -- Dr Lomax-Smith, Education Minister, South Australia

Pierre Bourdieu

I honestly don't think many people people have bought this bogus argument for several years now. I think one of the biggest events that brought this about was the sexual abuse scandals within the catholic church. From that event a discourse of holding religious groups accountable for their actions without attacking their right to their beliefs developed in the public sphere. I think most people recognize that saying that criticism of the actions of a religious group is religious bigotry is patently absurd. The trick is convincing people that criticism of Scientology is based upon the unethical and illegal things they do, not what they choose to believe.

Having said that, I am continuously dismayed at the level of hatred I see comming from a small but extremely vocal group on these forums. These individuals have crossed the line into bigotry long ago. It isn't religious bigotry- at least they don't express it as such. These are people who think that scientologists are bad people and that they are dangerous. They think all scientologists are alike. Above all else, they have nothing but contempt and hatred for scientologists. Like I said, this is a small group of people, but they are distressingly vocal.



Well to be fair people at protests often times do have signs mocking their beliefs. Yelling out OTIII at scientologists is also disrespectful to their beliefs because they believe that hearing such information ruins their spiritual growth. And when you call scientology a cult, you are attacking scientology as a whole. You are drawing upon a discourse to delegitimize the group and mark it as deviant and not worthy of consideration or respect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling people they shouldn't do these things. However I do think it is very unreasonable to mock their beliefs and call them a cult and then turn around and act indignant when passers by accuse you of simply attacking them because of what they believe.

Bitches don't know 'bout my habitus.

_You_

Just about every month a member of the public at a protest has placed the religious persecution card, saying we should not be criticizing a religion because it's a belief. These people are always Christians. People of faith are the most critical people I've met at protests. Many are innately protective of their own special, tax free club no matter who it includes.

neoanon

Calling them a cult doesn't necessarily attack their beliefs. I think of a cult as an organization that routinely abuses its members and restricts their freedoms in the name of religious beliefs while not allowing any criticism of those beliefs. What they believe is irrelevant to their criminal conduct. I do not say all scientologists are like that, but their leaders are, and so I think it is reasonable to call them a cult because of their abusive ways yet not disrespect their beliefs.

Get on the horn around the world. Tell em how to bring these bastards down! (- Independence Day)