Anonymous

From Just Bill:

Ask the Scientologist: Scientology's Demise

CLOCKSHIT

Interesting article hope its true! However we know better with Scilons, when one is gone many other Scilons are ready to continue the crimes and fool the public at will! Its money, money, money.....that talks!

3rdMan

Nice article.

and Bob was there too, and bacon!

Where I used to lulz: http://chicagosaysno.forumup.com/ind...=chicagosaysno
Where I mine for lulz now: http://www.anonymousdc.com/forums/

http://www.vimeo.com/user939620/videos <<<my vids for Chicago and DC

Anonynamefag

Great points.

I'LL GET YOU, AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO

Herro

Not really. I think many Scientologists get involved with scientology because they think that it works and that it can help them to improve their lives. And a lot of them also think it provides them with a means of making the world a better place. Like most religions, I think scientology speaks to a desire to help oneself and others.

But the author of this article is dead on accurate when he notes just how important secrecy and obscuration is to the CoS. They can't tell their members the whole truth until they've sucked them in and ensured that they have too much to lose by leaving. And they have to hide the truth about LRH and utter failure that is his "tech." Scientology is entirely dependent upon this notion of constantly working and moving up to new levels and not being able to learn something until you have progressed far enough.

From what I understand of it, the constant promise of "just wait till what you'll find out at the next level" is one of the ways they pull people in deeper and deeper. If all the information was available at the outset, people could make an informed decision as to whether or not they wanted to invest all their time and money into scientology. And when you look at scientology and it's failure to deliver on most of its promises, I think that they would have a very hard time drawing new people in.

Shitposting Shitposter of the Year - 2009

psychoutcults

OMG! I agree with Herro...
...and I'm a psych!

MongoLloyd

I've got another theory, not that it rules this out. But it's a factor that I haven't quite seen anyone take note of: How Scientology adapted itself to prevailing trends up until DM's takeover. Wall of text to follow:

The 50's was Scientology's native era. By most accounts it was an era of techo-optimism, of Buck Rogers and Sci-Fi and so on. Respect for Science was at a peak, and guys like Teller (father of the H-bomb) were just as much celebrities as any movie star. In that environment Hubbard came along and presented Dianetics, not as a religion but as 'The Modern Science of Mental Health'. He claimed to be a scientist and engineer, titles that gave respect back then, rather than a psychiatrist or spiritualist. He claimed that Dianetics/Scientology was particularly popular and appealing to scientists and engineers (hardly true, Scientific American was thoroughly unimpressed). Hubbard even later claimed the publication of 'Dianetics' in Astounding Science Fiction, rather than a real scientific journal, was that he'd reach more scientists and engineers that way. Scientology is deeply a product of the 50's - just consider how "All About Radiation" - and Hubbards claim to being a 'nuclear physicist' plays to both the 1950's fear of Nuclear War and the 50's respect for scientists. The whole anti-psych thing comes in here too, as the 50's image of psychiatry was largely the one Scientology espouses - locking people up in 'looney bins' and subjecting them to ECT and lobotomies. (Ironically, those practices were falling out of favor strongly by that time, and the introduction of the first anti-psychotics in the 50's lead to a dramatic drop in the number of mental hospital inpatients between 1950 and 1960. Psychiatry was revolutionized in those years, but not by Hubbard)

In the late 50's religion started entering politics in the US as a force, 'under God' was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, Evangelicism boomed, Billy Graham got big, and so on. I think Hubbard figured out that he could get all the money and respect he craved, and little of the scientific scrutiny, if he became a 'religious' leader instead. So that's what he did. A very good move on his part, but it didn't exactly take a genius to figure it out.

The 60's was a real boon for any wannabe religion. The whole counter-culture movement sprang up and basically any 'alternative' idea got headway. Scientology changes image and starts promoting 'a world without war' and so on. It's especially ironic considering the fascist nature of Scientology. Recruiting young idealistic hippies who were disenchanted with conservative, mainstream society, and turning them into uniform-wearing drones of a crypto-fascist religion; Talk about the ultimate bait-and-switch! But it was a golden era for cults in general, and Scientology was there with the rest of them.

They coasted on that into the 70's as the whole counter-culture movement ebbed out and disenchanted ex-hippies started looking for the next thing. Scientology boomed, so did others like the Moonies, and even batshit cults like the People's Temple. His own addictions aside, Hubbard apparently realizes he can make money off the former habits of these new members and invents the 'purif rundown' for all those old drug users.

From the late 70's to the 80's we enter what people have called "The 'me' era". People start focusing more on themselves, hippies became yuppies. Collectivism was out, Reaganism was in. Scientology re-brands itself again. It's an 'applied religious philosophy', a 'self-help philosophy' and so on. They recruit Travolta, Cruise, Kirstie Alley - major stars back then. (well, Travolta was in a downwards trend, but..) Great marketing campaigns put 'Dianetics' and 'Self-analysis' on the bestseller charts. Also a successful time for the cult, but things would only go downhill from there. Word was starting to get out, and had been since the late 70's. Hubbard's death hardly made stuff better either, but it enabled Miscaviage to tone down some of the 'space opera' stuff that was thoroughly out-of-fashion.

Scientology scored their tax exemption at the beginning of the 90's. But that's also where it really started going downhill. The Time Magazine exposé really damaged them. But in general, they were just not in style anymore. Scientology was not a 90's movement. Their prospective recruits were watching Oprah and reading Deepak Chopra books instead. Their celebrities were going out of vogue too. Then the Internet came along, and the First Internet War started - getting Scientology even more negative press and scrutiny. They've been fighting a losing battle since.

But I'm not sure Scientology would be successful even without the enormous and increasing opposition. They're just not 'in touch' with the times anymore. People looking for answers aren't looking towards Scientology. It's hopelessly outdated and they're either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. I think people are a lot more aware of cults in general as well.

Tl;dr version: Scientology had a good run from the 50's to 80's, and managed to keep with the times pretty well. But they've been out of it since the 90's and there's little evidence they'll ever come back into style.

mrfyde

I don't know, you always hear of people being scammed with an e-mail from Nigeria. People always want a good deal when the guy knocks on their door and wants to offer cheap repairs on their roof or driveway. And millions of people buy lottery tickets every week. (btw the lottery ticket is the best investment mentioned in this thread but unless it is over at least $120 million you never get a fair bet,)

Anonymous excels at one thing, that is spreading information around the globe at nearly 80% of the speed of light and that is kryptonite to organizations that rely on secrecy.

Anonymous

Me 2 and Im nuts !

Obi-Wan-anon

And to add to all this "secrecy" is the reams of papers a cultie is forced to sign, promising to never reveal the secret ending; the forced disconnection away from family and friends who would reveal the secret ending; the elaborate "routing-out" process (with the threats of exposing their private "confessionals" and "crimes").

All this falls under the KSW banner.

"There are no conflicts which cannot be resolved unless the true promoters of them remain hidden.

—L. Ron Hubbard, New Slant On Life"

A-non-non-anon

In the particular case, Herro wasn't talking out of his/her/its arse, so there's no shame in agreeing.

Did you 2WC with the wrong terminal?
Did L&N fail on the Body Thetans?
OSA, what are you hiding from your Body Thetans?

BusterFriendly

Reminds me of another once-powerful business that relied on suppression of the truth= the Tobacco Industry. And, I think $ci is taking a page out of the TI playbook by expanding into third world countries where the awareness is much lower so they can get away with much more.

"Actually, what's happening with the church right now is frankly spectacular."-Tommy Davis

Ogsonofgroo

Ditto!

Pecans or cashews?

Nice points made and pretty much whats i feels an' thanks OP fer an intersesting take on things from the quoted.

bottom line> Its a frikken con-job, a long con, a deep one, but still air-less, cruel,
greedy, and hurtfull.

This is why.

O/o

'Nemo me impune lacessit.'

LRon wuz a jeenious! >

"We, by the way, have generated atomic fission without the use of uranium. This is not a difficult thing to do. All you do is synthesize a gamma ray and synthesize some other rays and by concentrating them, you can get an atomic explosion."
("Radiation", lecture of 5 November 1956)

http://www.scientology-lies.com/liesindex.html

Anonymous

Good points in a well articulated article.

Tenebrous

I'd like to agree with the author, but unfortunately I can't. Even when something is exposed as a lie there's plenty of people to take up the cause.

Just look at peter popoff...the guy was exposed as a blatant fraud by randi back on the carson show and where's the shamed popoff now? Selling people miracle spring water and by all accounts making quite a living off of it.

There's just a certain subset of people that not only want to believe, but have to believe.

Recovering Scientologist

Religions and cults target those individuals who are in need of help. They are at low points in their life and don't know where to go. Religions give them answers, true of false, which make them feel like they know what they are doing or where they are going (heaven, hell, reincarnation, etc.). This will be like this for many years possibly forever. As we are a society improve education levels of ourselves and future generations there will hopefully be less and less of this. But as it stands now there are always going to be people out there looking for answers, help, etc. who will be taken advantage of by greedy religions, cults, individuals, etc. And from personal experience a lot of the times the people in those groups think they are helping the people. But in the case of the "miracle spring water" or this spiritual perfume I have to imagine they know they are conning people. But maybe not. Maybe they are so deluded they think they are helping. It happened to me.

Tenebrous

Oh, popoff knows that he's conning people, but yeah, I think many people have convinced themselves that they have certain powers or abilities to help people, when in reality, they're leading them astray.

Hopefully there will come a day when reason trumps out over false promises, but it's an uphill battle. The easy answer has always been a popular thing.

Anonymous

You said it before I did. The article has too much assurance in this "demise" of Scientology. He's jumping the gun when we really know it's far far away from a dissolutive state.

Tenebrous

Especially considering that he's focusing on the demise of the religion itself. Destroying the power structure seems much more likely, imo, than the entire belief system itself. Whether we like it or not cults and religious sects have staying power. There's been everything from "it's the end of the world this year so sell, sell, sell" to "we've cloned a human being...no,really".

Just discrediting the "prophets" and even the beliefs isn't enough to utterly bury the entire entity. The cultic mindset is a hydra in that respect because when someone truly wants to believe in something you can't stop it. Cut off as many aspects of their belief as you can and new avenues to keep with it spring up. The only person who can stop that process is the individual and getting every individual to open their eyes is a monumental task.

TypingChimp

What I respect about Herro is that he always gets you to think, to articulate your views and formulate rational arguments. He's a troll, but more importantly, he's a devil's advocate, and that is of incalculable value. That's why I almost have a mancrush on him. Groupthink is cancer. Herro is chemo. Without devil's advocates, trolls, independent thinkers, and people to stir shit up, we might as well be OCMB.

I find myself basking in the glory of Scientology's Eternal October. It is beautiful seeing the ruin David Miscavige has pulled in. All of that pain, all of that suffering, all finally coming home to roost. Call it karma, justice, "what goes around comes around." I call it beautiful.

To everybody else, I mock you with my ice cream cone, Amish guy.

In memory of the victims, or, I am a moralfag.