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1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

Discussion in 'Media' started by Skeptic1337, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. auchraw Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I have googled in a kind of half-hearted way and can't find it but two years ago I came across a sad family who said their dad, in his 50s maybe, an architect maybe, had been declared, which meant no more auditing, He got very depressed about this, sat around the house doing nothing for a while, then killed himself so that he could come back and get more auditing in the next life. The guy really believed this.

    I'm sure EOC is not uncommon. The alleged church certainly has more than its share of suicidal members. And all the evidence I am aware of suggests that Rex tried. But the focus of his anger was TC. Why?
  2. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    While there is lots of debate as to whether or not anyone would ever, or has ever been ordered to do an EOC, there is absolutely no question whatsoever that Fowler would have been told to "terminatedly handle" the situation.

    That, you can take to the bank.

    A lot of people seem to be stuck on the terminology "EOC." Which is irrelevant. There are plenty of policies in writing referring to killing people, plenty of references as to how people at certain places on the tone scale should be disposed of.

    When it came to organizations, such as CSICOP, they weren't even shy about declaring that "terminatedly handle" was meant to kill the organization. See "Program: Humanist Humiliation", or Cult Awareness Network.

    There is no question that the settlement was intended to "terminatedly handle" Ciancio... However, after deciding that was the path to "Terminatedly handle him" Fowler gets comm from OSA indicating it's probably not enough and that they don't trust him.

    Fowlers eternal soul is at risk. Terminatedly handle this -- or else.

    He was also auditing Solo-Nots. Solo NOTS is rather notorious for driving people off the deep end. Lots of ex's indicate that Solo NOTS is designed to "remove your conscience". I can say that AFTER solo nots, you're quite likely to notice the onset of the notorious scientology million mile stare. Fowler had been doing this exercise for nearly 20 years. He couldn't have been sane.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Wait where did you get the terminatedly (is this a word?) handle ciancio from?

    I like how being an exculty you have certainty and know how to know. It's cool, keep it up!
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I think I remember that story from a protest in DC(?). A girl was telling her story about her father.

    As for the anger toward TC, my *speculation* is that it wasn't an out of control, going postal anger. The whole setup seems way too cold and calculated. Tom knew too much and his lawyer filled family connection was just too much of a threat to the cult. Rex somehow figures that an OT murderer is less of a PR flap than whatever Tom was threatening to expose then decides to try to go the "martyr" role by sacrificing himself for the greater good of the cult - no biggie, he can just come back in a new meat body later. He ends Tom, then tries to end self but when he fails he's like "Oh shit, that sucked! OUCH, my head! WTF was I thinking? I'm out... oh shit, cops! Let me just go back in here and lie down for a sec, I really don't feel too good."
  5. RightOn Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Maybe Fowler will throw the cult under the bus after he sees that they threw him under the bus.

    After all he is still here (not by his choice) and he wasn't planning on being still here. On top of having to answer to a murder charge and going to jail.

    Not likely.... but you never know. (eeeerr, I mean throwing COS under the bus that is, not the part about going to jail)
  6. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Funny. FTR, you are the one trolling this thread (I would like to know what was edited by the staff.)

    As I said, IMHO, those who claim that the living will is not CCRH's one are the ones speculating.
  7. TinyDancer Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I just merged his posts. No edit as such.
  8. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I'm not an ex.

    Although "EOC" is not a part of the everyday scn vernacular, "terminatedly handle" is. Any particular flap or problem should always be "terminatedly handled". It's common scn language. You can even find it today on scn websites such as this: Scientology Volunteer Ministers - Publications It's what Scns do. Endlessly. Run around trying to terminatedly handle things.

    My speculation is that Fowler was being told to make it go right. Terminatedly handle the situation. He came up with an out -- the settlement -- thinking he would terminatedly handle the situation. He received communication from OSA indicating that his settlement was not going to terminatedly handle the situation -- this would be the note indicating that they didn't trust Ciancio and perhaps other communications.

    Fowler was in some kind of lower ethics condition. He had to do the written communication regarding the misuse of the "investment fund," to the employees of Fowlersoft and that is actually, in practice, part of the ethics formula. My guess is he was doing the Liability Formula specifically.

    The liability formula:

    • Decide who are one's friends.
    • Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger.
    • Make up the damage one has done by personal contribution far beyond the ordinary demands of a group member.
    • Apply for re-entry to the group by asking the permission of each member of it to rejoin and rejoining only by majority permission, and if refused, repeating steps 2-until one is allowed to be a group member again.

    Poor little Rex figured he'd get to deliver a blow, make up damage one has done by personal contribution far beyond the ordinary demands, and terminatedly handle Ciancio all in one fell swoop. It's wholly irrelevant if he himself died, he'd pick up where he left off in the next lifetime. Plus he gets to die in a condition of "Nonexistance," which is a really good place to start in the next lifetime. Because that's where everyone starts anyway.

    He was nutty as a fruitcake as are most OT's.

    What's really funny is that we look at his attempted suicide and say, "OT's are so incompetent that they can't even kill themselves right." The back channels within Scn, on the other hand, see that "even a bullet to the head won't kill an OT!"
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Too much speculation for my liking.
  10. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    You're right, the timing is in question, but it's not unreasonable that given that the flap was occurring then, that the note was timely and in relation to that flap specifically. Reasonable assumption, but not conclusive evidence.

    I don't know why you conclude she isn't OSA? Lots of people who are not titled within OSA do OSA work. Even public scns. OSA can recruit from public, from WISE, from CCHR, or wherever they want for the resources they need.

    Laura was on staff pre-Anon, when I was an active critic. She took part in all sorts of OSA crap in Denver/Boulder at the behest of then-DSA Deb Danos. Deb recruited an OT in Denver from CCHR to handle myself and other critics at the time.

    I wouldn't find it the least bit surprising, given Laura's position in Fowlersoft, to find out that she was Fowlers justice terminal.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    So everyone doing Solo NOTS is insane? A potential homicidal maniac like Rex?
  12. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Well, my personal opinion on that is "yes". But it's just that... A personal opinion.
  13. Vir Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    When somebody suggested that Fowler was told to cause an "end of cycle", the debate turned to talking about how common the term was. How odd.

    Fowler decided to attempt an "end of cycle" on himself, "terminatedly handle the outpoint", whatever - the salient points isn't what you call it, but:
    1: how much this decision was influenced by his Scientology thinking, in either direction.
    2: whether he was told by somebody else to do what he did.

    You can successfully argue against point 2 without denying documented Scientology beliefs, you know. All you need to say is that based on the information we have, if they wanted Ciancio and Fowler dead, they could have done it in a way casting less suspicion on themselves - so it doesn't make sense that they would do it in this way.

    The wife and the other employees may not be totally out of suspicion yet though.
  14. whoever Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I haven't seen anyone claim that the living will is not the CCRH living will. I have seen arguments that if you don't know that it was, you should not say that it was. You can say that it most likely was, it seems probable that it was, it stands to reason that it was, etc. But if you say, flat-out, that it was, don't blame people for calling you out.

    You do good work here in keeping track of solid information. It surprises me that you are so doggedly insisting that incorrect information should be spread.

    Um...lrn2 distinguish between the CCHR living will and all other possible living wills. The affidavit does not specify what kind of living will it was.
  15. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    This is kind of what i was getting at. The language they use is loaded. I have no doubt the cult didn't order him "Kill Ciancio and then kill yourself!"... They really aren't THAT stupid.

    Instead, the Cult told him, "Handle the situation terminatedly." "Make it go right." and his Liability formula told him, "Strike a blow"and "make a sacrifice." It's fairly easy (for me) to see how he reached the conclusion that Killing Ciancio and then himself would meet everyones needs. For someone who wasn't making it past OT-7, moving on to the next lifetime would also help him get up the bridge.

    When you stick a huge fucking rusty railroad spike through your brain (so that you can think like a scientologist) it all makes perfect sense.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Right, but the hypothetical person who told him to "make it go right - I don't care how", if it was the colleague, his wife, or somebody else, probably didn't think Fowler would take it to this extreme.
  17. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Right. In fact, I'll bet what he did caused a hell of scramble down at the local org. The first thing OSA would've done was try to pin down their exposure and urge everyone involved to "delay, delay, delay".

    I don't make much out of the fact that someone MIGHT have called 911 and said, "it was a disgruntled employee." That it was, in fact, fowler -- an OT -- would be absolutely unthinkable to most scns. We saw this in the Denver Post forums on fowler. Early on there were scientologists posting and saying, "Fowler couldn't have done this. He was an OT, he didn't need a gun!"

    The idea that an OT couldn't just "as-is" the whole situation is simply incomprehensible to many scientologists.

    Scientologists as a whole are also very conspiracy minded. Their PR, for example, on Operation Snow White was that the government was out to get them and in the end they only convicted scientologists of "stealing copier paper!".. In the end, they will have no problem selling the conspiracy theory that Rex was framed and Ciancio was the shooter. They aren't exactly detail (or reality) oriented in their lies.
  18. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    TL;DR CCHR is probable; non CCHR is not probable. The ones defending the least probable option should be the ones arguing to make their case better, IMHO.
  19. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I like how your world works.

    I think you should have to prove me wrong before I prove you wrong.

    Brilliant!
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    At least you know admit that a living will existed. I think we're finally in agreement.
  21. TinyDancer Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I can see that possibility, especially for a guy who's rationality has fled him. But a direction of that kind is not nearly explicit enough to warrant attention of a law enforcement variety.
  22. BusinessBecky Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Most suicides are not done with a living will in hand. Suicides occur usually with one person going through a traumatic or emotional issue in there life.

    The reason the Scientology beliefs fit well in this case, is because of the classical Scientology understanding of who someone attempts suicide. This guy is a reredrum, so he was trying to being objects.

    This is not end of life counseling, its the death panels.

    We have all heard of these being pushed on us by mental health reformers. They want our minds, and even the memories of our most precious things we hold dear. Remember MK ultra, some of those test patients completely lost their memories to the experiments. This could be you. If you are not careful about that you might fall into the trap you will be a reredrum too. So how are we supposed to defend our selves from this kind of abuse? People need to be more aware of these death panels.

    Of course the guy is not going to not be found as temporally insane. With doctors stealing organs and making money from the surgeries and the insurances companies want you all drugged up for these operations. No Scientologist wants this to happen. This doesn't bother you?
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    BusinessBecky, if that post was serious, it sounds like Scienotology might be for you.
  24. BusinessBecky Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    The sky is falling!
  25. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I would love to hear how your world works. More specifically, I would love to hear how you make assumptions-free decisions.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    REX FOWLER IS INNOCENT
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I honestly do not comprehend what you're on about.
  28. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I did speak to one of the detectives on the fowler case. There is nothing that has been posted on here that they don't know about. Including the financial irregularities with the investment fund. They are aware of the concept of "EOC". They are aware of Operation Snow White, WISE, IAS regging, etc.. I didn't bring that information to them. They knew it.

    Without saying more than is factual, or more than I really know... I can tell you that in terms of the murder, the current investigation is no more than the murder of Ciancio. Although $cientology features prominently in the circumstances surrounding the murder... It is not an angle being investigated as part of the murder case against Fowler. Abstruse enough?

    Whether or not there are circumstances beyond the murder that will result in additional charges to other parties for other crimes is still very much up in the air, but lets just say that there isn't a tremendous motivation to do anything other than close the murder case.

    The po-po indicated that an awful lot of "people with axes to grind" with Scientology have offered to help, and many Scientologists have offered to help. Scientologists don't ever offer to help unless they're getting money from it, new recruits (same as money) or they're very very worried about it.

    Don't expect indictments or raids or anything. If anything were to happen beyond the simple prosecution for murder, expect it to be a very, very long time from now. Most likely long after the conclusion of The People v. Rex Fowler.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    They know it because they read it here.
  30. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I believe you are correct, but the only site that was mentioned explicitly was wikipedia, which has an nice section on Snow White.
  31. Herro Member

  32. TinyDancer Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    That is precisely what I would have expected.
  33. PodPeople Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    As much as I'd like this to go to a jury trial and possibly exposing sci moonbatter and coercion, it seems there's enough evidence of premeditation so more likely plea deal. Add to that liklihood of finances in the red, what would there be to go after in a civil suit?

    The culties will just hear "out ethics, out tech" SP, nothing to see here, move along. It will be one more name, one more page in "why are they dead".

    The outcome will make press release in Colorado. If it includes sci references, maybe national, which would be great. Maybe some sci's will wake up because of it and that's about the best scenario to hope for, and hope his two adopted kids are included. But hopes that scientology will go on trail via this case are very unlikely.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Either way, Rex is, at least for the forseeable future, a ward of the state of Colorado. As such, his living will is going to be placed into a little metal box along with his blood soaked clothing and whatever else he had in his posession at the time of his arrest. He won't be needing these things for quite some time.
  35. grebe Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    "EOC" is a distraction. The issue is communication: Did Rex talk to important people in the church about Ciancio and how to handle him?

    We know he had an email conversation with Zaspel. Anyone more important? If so, that might establish conspiracy.
  36. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    I'm not making any decisions here. This is a discussion about a murder. Which has facts which are easily verifiable.

    Then there is the next step, educated guess. Which is what you are proposing and now asking people to prove your opinion wrong. By definition this is impossible. Since it is after all an opinion.

    All I said was don't frame it as a fact and you'll be just fine. I know English is hard Ann but come on we're talking basic shit here. Even for you.
  37. BlackPR Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Civil case could include the church directly. I think there's certainly a wrongful death claim to be made by the family of Ciancio. The church will settle. They may even settle before any case is actually filed. The standard of proof is entirely different from a criminal case, and I can see that they'd have a hard time un-weaving themselves from this mess.

    If they learned anything from Lisa McPherson, then they have already been in talks.

    If there's even an inkling that there might be a lawsuit? It's in their best interest to shut that shit down right now. Silently. With all parties being subject to various agreements forbidding them from talking about it. Otherwise, it gets ugly, documents get filed, depositions happen, things get posted, people get motivated to picket, etc., etc.

    They know the family wants its pound of flesh. And as much as Scn likes to "never defend," they cannot ignore the pack of wolves circling outside waiting for any of that flesh to hit the ground. In that sense Anonymous exerts tremendous pressure on Scientology in these situations. They know that if they even misspell a word in a filing, that it will be broadcast by Anon. They know that every detail will be scrutinized ad infinitum. Their best bet is to keep Anon away from dox entirely.
  38. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    They wont do shit until the criminal case is over. All parties involved. Unless they have really shitty lawyers from the internet. Then sure they might be having settlement talks right now!

    {WAV~}TUM TUM{~WAV}
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    Hey! The org should fly Delorme over to mediate.
  40. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: 1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged Part 2

    You got their number right? Give'm a call! Your idea is brilliant.

    [/whiteknight]

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