Civil Disobedience

Discussion in 'Projects' started by SomeOldGuy, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. SomeOldGuy Member

    Civil Disobedience

    Civil Disobedience is serious business, but WTF is it?

    It's not DDoSing, but that's is making its own moral and ethical statement. The damage done by taking down websites is minimal (except for the $$ they have to pay), because of their publishing and access to TV - they're still able to talk, and loudly. It's not to shut them down, if anything it's to point out just how strong they are in communication as well as to gain attention for CoSplay. We CAN'T shut them up, and aren't interested in trying, because we don't want to be shut up by someone else in turn. We want them to stop ripping people off, forcibly destroying people's lives, and pulling down extreme lulz from the internet to protect their "intellectual property."

    Copying and distributing their sekrit skriptoors IS civil disobedience. It is stupid for a church to use tricks of corporate law in order to gain from its doctrines (not to mention to dodge the First Amendment by getting government protection for their trade secrets). It is civil disobedience to spread critical satire about the institution (as opposed to individual rank-and-file members), because the law is being used to silence criticism and lulz. It is wrong for a group to intimidate a person because they don't think or speak in approved ways (mock them, yes. Coerce, no.), or because the opinion that person holds is inconvenient. Remember the mess over the Danish paper's cartoon contest with all those depictions of Mohammed? Same goes here - we'll take our lulz where we damn well please. A commenter on another board said that this was against tort law, not civil law. The DCMA - the current core behind their efforts to shut down critical and satirical websites. Disobeying a law passed by Congress specifically in order to demonstrate that it is unjust is, IMHO, civil disobedience.

    Civil Disobedience is breaking an unjust law (hell, I think standing outside with the masks on falls in this category too given all the anti-terrorism panic lawmaking), working w/in the system if you get v& (though your friends can be outside raising hell via pickets and such) in order to demonstrate two things:

    1. That the law sucks. A commenter on another board said that this was against tort law, not civil law. The DCMA - the current core behind their efforts to shut down critical and satirical websites. Disobeying a law passed by Congress specifically in order to demonstrate that it is unjust is, IMHO, civil disobedience.

    2. That you are not a scary ebil person for breaking this law. That average people who see this bullshit can do something about it. That you're a human being with a sense of right and wrong (in b4 Anon has no mercy, etc - if you're going there, you're not who I'm talking to. If this isn't enough info for you, watch this: - Letter from a Birmingham Jail is good too (warning, long)

    3. If you get v&, call the ACLU and the EFF, who love these cases. Contact Gawker Media, who was the publishing co. that first got the takedown letter that started all of this. Get someone to send a letter to Glenn Greenwald (, who may at least nudge things a little. Make a point of them having to try to enforce this stupidity against public opinion, considerable legal muscle, and a less-than-sympathetic media environment. You will NOT be left swinging.

    4. Let's be honest. The odds of getting v& are about the same as the odds of being hit by a metrobus full of Krispy-Kreme donuts while walking your dog in the middle of Central Park. There are too many of us doing this, and if someone does get arrested, that means ALL of us can counter their attempt to "make an example out of someone."

    5. VERY IMPORTANT. Drop a little cash on the ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the EFF - they're the ones who will be working w/in the system to protect the few who get v&. Tell them explicitly that this donation is from Anonymous, and why you're giving it: to protect free speech and the separation of church and state. (a commenter on another forum has said that the ACLU doesn't accept donations designed to influence. From their charter:

    Stick to something in there, or all of them - they're all applicable.

    tl;dr: The best civil disobedience targets the law you want to change as well as the person abusing it. Lay on, pick your battles well because people are watching, we'll win (go us!), and hey! Let's be careful out there.

    Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, just woke up and still in the pre-coffee daze. BTW, if anything I've written strikes you as worth it, please copypasta it. It ceased being mine when I hit post. Change my words to mean something I didn't and the bad thetans will get you. :p

    Edited - fecking apostrophes...
  2. Atomosk Member

    good stuff
  3. L.the.Anon Member

    In my mind civil disobedience is a good thing if you don't want to use violence. I'm a bit unsure if we should aim for several goals for the 10th though... Anyone have any thoughts? I'm a bit tired at the moment...
  4. Atomosk Member

    IMHO, we shouldn't attempt civil disobedience until we're sure we have popular support. Ghandi succeeded because the public followed him; we need to make certain that the public follows us.
  5. SomeOldGuy Member

    Heh. That's the thing about any kind of activism - you have absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that anyone will approve of what you're doing; and at first, most won't just on general principle (they don't have the PR bonus of a simultaneous worldwide campaign and a truly creepy opponent as a starter boost). If it was really, really safe, then it wouldn't be necessary to disobey. :p

    Speaking very carefully here - if you're not willing to partake in civil disobedience, do you know what you can do to help? Be one of those "people" (in quotes, to emphasize that last time I checked, if you're posting to a forum then you're a people too :D) whose support they want, and persuade others. That can have a powerful positive effect.
  6. Atomosk Member

    And that effect is why you should have a certain amount of support.
  7. Spider Member

    Re: Civil Disobedience

    It's complicated, and there are a number of authorities and commentators to look to. Ghandi and his Satyagraha, Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King Jr. and other leaders in the American Civil Rights Movement, are the most cited examples of the effective use of civil disobedience, but there are many others- like the Danish resistance when the Nazi's invaded in the early 1940's.

    It's not simply disagreeing with a law, but finding a law to be so unjust that you willingly break it, not hiding the fact that you've done so, and submit to arrest and incarceration to draw attention to the unjust law. There are variations on this, like in the aformentioned example- the Danes didn't parade around the fact they were helping move their Jewish population to neutral Sweden to avoid the camps. They did however, manage to get 7,220 of the 8,000 Danish Jews out of the country.

    That's a misconception. If you're refering to the DCMA, then it could be both. Civil law (in Common Law jurisdictions like America and England) is anything that isn't Criminal law. Tort law specifically covers civil "wrongs"; like recovering damage to your car after an accident, product liability suits and intentional torts like battery and assault or potentially recovering monetary damages after a DDOS attack on your web server.

    The Church holds the copyright to L. Ron's works, which is Intellectual Property law. They own proprietary rights to his writings and can dictate how they control that property which includes, among other things, how much they charge for them. Violations of that would probably be resolved in special I.P. courts.
  8. SomeOldGuy Member

    Masks are enough. Besides which, breaking more than one law at a time is asking for trouble. XD

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