Does Taking Down A Site Hurt Or Help Freedom

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Andy Downs, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. Andy Downs Member

    My thought is taking citizens personal info off a commercial site is like a peaceful protest turning violent by the protesters. As soon as the first rock is thrown, that is all the media will cover.

    I get DDoS and think some good lawyers should take some of these Anon arrests to higher courts so that protests can be legal in any form. I think only case law via Supreme Court can change the idea of arresting people for protesting.

    I also understand the philosophy behind taking customers personal info from companies to make a point.

    I just wonder if it does more harm than good for the actual goals of everyone who loves and wants real freedom.
    Thoughts anyone?
  2. Anonymous Member

    From what I read in the news an awful lot of people are sitting in cells right now for doing those things.
    No precedent setting cases moving up through the courts.
    The gov't treats rapists better. Even their sentences are way less.
    And freedom of information people- same.
    There is a thread here on Aaron Swartz.
    What you had to say above reminded me of We Are Legion, the Story Of Hackivists.
    If you haven't seen it- it's free online- on YouTube too, I think.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Andy Downs Member

    I will check it out...These people sitting in jail need top rated lawyers to fight these issues. I don't understand why the ACLU has not saddled up to fight this battle.
    I know some good constitutional attorneys and I would think that is in part what you need. You also need lawyers who live in Federal Court...not all lawyers are made the same.
    It would take a massive fund raising campaign. But it could be done. Someone could also start a 501c4 Social Welfare operation for 1st Amendment Rights so donations would be tax deductible. Then have a major firm go on the attack defending them all.
    This is the piece of the puzzle that is missing. Tweets, protests, etc are great....but sometimes you just need cash and a good attorney.
    It could be done and should be done by someone.
    I'm always up for a good fight for a good cause
  4. Andy Downs Member

    I am not an attorney....just understand the system and have good contacts
  5. Anonymous Member

    • Like Like x 1
  6. Andy Downs Member

    I have seen the short version....I will check out this version shortly
    I saw the attorney's defending these victims. I looked up Cohen on here as well. The movement needs a national defense fund to make sure they win. They will not win on the trial level. It will take good appeal lawyers to assure the issues are won in court. That takes serious firms who the courts are used to dealing with in court.
    The judges listen more to the lawyers they know. It is part of the system. It is not fair but it is how it works.
    A national defense fund needs to be set up to defend all these activists. Otherwise the appeal courts will side with the government and the rights of everyone will be lost.
    Also 1st Amendment advocates need to be pulled into the fray. Articles by people who will be listened to in various publications.
    You need
    1. Lawyers who live in Federal Court
    2. So called "Legit" Freedom Advocates pulled in to make noise (Publishers, professors, etc)
    3. A fund to pay for the defense of all these activists
    4. The Anons Uniting to assure the pubic knows that donations to defend these people are better than hits on a site

    These are important issues that effect everyone in the country whether they know it or not. Getting public support is vital
    The Govt is going to make sure every resource they have goes to prosecuting these people. They know if they don;t get them convicted it can change the whole way they do business. They do not want that.
    They need a win to justify their positions....the Activists need a win for world freedom.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Technology marches on and one day DDOS will be irrelevant.

    The punishment doesn't fit the crime though. DDOS events meant as transient traffic disruptions to show a protest spirit should not result in a year in prison. But that is just my opinion.
    • Like Like x 3
  8. Andy Downs Member

    There is no way if properly defended that DDoS is illegal. The problem inside the law is that there are no laws that apply to the technology of today much less tomorrow. A legal precedent needs to be set on the appeals level that show DDoS is legal.
    If this does not happen the Govt will be able to legally outlaw all forms of computerized protesting. That is why it is vital that these people be defended in the right way by the right people.
    This whole attempt by the Govt to outlaw activism will remain in full force until the right people try the right case on the appeals level. Once that is accomplished, the Govt will have to completely change how it does business.
    I know this from first hand experience. My mother was the first US citizen to beat the FBI and Hoover in a wrongful death action. It forced the FBI to start the first negotiation teams.
    The Congress does not understand technology and Anons don;t fully understand how the court system can be used for good if done right.
    It is nice for everyone to tweet "Remember our Bros & Sis in Jail Today" but it does not get them out and the system changed.
    Think of a well organized court battle like hacking. You just chip away at issues until you get your way.
    None of these people should go to jail....but they will for a long time if this is not legally attacked.
    • Like Like x 2

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