if you aren't a ex it's difficult to comprehend the lack of an ability to "think outside the box" there are rules and policies about what information one can access there are private briefings by management to screen out and spin what is happening in the media or courts and that is the information sea org, staff and public rely on no sarcasm intended here, but google mind control, brainwashing, cults
I have always been a fan of Roland's complex, multi-layered trolling. It's neither all serious nor all trolling. Think A Modest Proposal. A lot of what he says in these provocative posts is completely true. A lot of it is taking that truth and stretching it to the point it becomes ridiculous. It's entirely on purpose, and he rarely wastes a word. It is not for no reason that his Xenu flyer was one of the first things to provoke the clams to frenzied violence.
I think there are a lot of nasty people in the world and it is quite natural that they gravitate towards ill-intentioned groups that match their nature. You can't ban these groups because others will take their places. What you have to be concerned about what effect those individual groups will have on society. If they are making nerve gas or something like that then you have to watch them and close them down. If they are stirring up racial troubles then you have to contain them. But if you have a group that destroys its own kind then that is a neat solution to the problem.
I'm with you up to the point where the group destroys its own kind. The problem I have with regarding this as "...a neat solution..." is that the process is way too slow. For me, if it's not fast, it's not neat. While the cult sows and then reaps from the seeds of its own (slow) self-destruction, anything within legal boundaries that can accelerate the entire process, also contributes to the destruction of the cult. This is productive, imho. Generally, I am resistant to processes involving 'speed' but in this case, I make an exception and fully endorse a speedy destruction, by any (legal) means possible. Recently, I came across this amusing picture of Gerry Armstrong:
dont try to excuse his douchebaggery! he's been fighting the cult long enough to know everything there is to know, to be safeguarded against all the brainwashing mind controll bullshit.
Gerry is an ex. He was picked by LRH to write the LRH Biography. [Apologies, Last. I misread your quoted post. My Bad. Too Tired.] Something showed up in the research Gerry was doing and he was like "....WTF???" He bailed and sued the cult. Over the long term, he won the lawsuit. He lives in Canada now and attended the last two Vancouver Anon Raids. Gerry Armstrong is a very fine gentleman, imho. Many exes credit Gerry Armstrong with their choice to leave the cult. http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Armstrong_(activist)
All that is required for a speedy destruction of the cult is to level the playing field such that they are subject to the same conditions of everyone else. They continue to exist because they dodge the law and regulations. Like they get rates relief. Like they do not pay minimum pay even though the staff have a contract and can not take time off. If they paid both of these alone they would be gone in four years.
What you have identified appear to me to be 'political' problems. It's an old axiom that the wheels of justice turn very slowly. In my experience, the wheels of politics turn even slower. I don't believe Anonymous to be a political force, in the formal and conventional sense. Rather, Anonymous is involved with raising awareness of the vileness & corruption of the cult. In my country, the cult could not get away with the kind of stuff that I've read about on WWP, taking place in the UK - the hotel in Cornwall for example. Depending on where it is located, the cult gets away with whatever it can get away with. The 'religious' status is being challenged in several countries at the present time. And political forces have been ignited in Australia. Where the political issues can get yucky is in the geo-political sphere. I've read enough of those state department cables to realize that a hideous clusterfuck exists whenever american geo-political interests are involved. Xenophon may get little American support with his agenda unless Australia complies with American wishes for a uniform international policy involving copyright and digital media. Bill Clinton and Ron Paul are both on the record as being pro-scientology. Just typing that previous sentence has me so nauseated that I am forced to stop typing here.
Posting in a TRoland thread. I gather from the OP's perspective that he believes all Scilons are nasty stupid morons. If so then you are way off target. Most scientologists aren't like Rinder, Rathbun or Miscavige. They are just decent people trying to get by. As a public scientologist and then Sea Org member, I never heard of Lisa McPherson, Xenu or anything else. In the Sea Org, internet access was denied most members and monitored for those with it. Public scientologists are told not to look up Scientology on the internet and every scientologist is taught to avoid "entheta". This alone puts up a barrier against outside opinion or information. Some people are born and raised in it. Those morons. IMO scientology shouldn't be left to it's own devices nor should it be banned. It should be taxed like a business and not allowed to hire minors. And there should be regulations restricting the work hours of staff (this would be hard to enforce). Anyway, my point is 95% of them aren't "nasty" they are just misguided.
I think some of us are here because they enjoy trolling the cult, not necessarily here (entirely) for moral reasons. As Martin Poulter says, the internet and Scientology cannot coexist, because it relies on secrecy. Roland - if you're bored, I don't blame you. You've been doing this for over a decade. Have a chanology holiday (or just stop) - it will do you the world of good. Thanks for playing, and do come back, if you feel the urge to troll.
^ How hard can it be to find this guy. I'm curious to know what his name is. What happened to him? Did he leave Scientology, or is he still in? Please help and try and find a clearer photo of him.
Those are the "morons" I mentioned. No matter where they are, they will end up on the receiving end of an abusive relationship and if it is not Scientology it will be something else so it doesn't matter.
And it is a valid approach. They are a nasty bunch of slimebags. If you wind them up just for the hell of it or just because you dislike them then those with doubts will leave and this is a good thing. They will get more morons and nasty bastards joinig them in time and that will up the nastiness ratio and brings about an internal self-destruction quicker than if you did nothing.
I think Roland has a good point in many cases. If you have to tell someone "Don't do this stupid thing, don't do this bad thing, don't do this other stupid thing.", and you have to tell them again each time a new opportunity to do a stupid or bad thing arises, you are not so much educating that person as running their life for them. Many people remaining in Scientology, I presume, are such people.
So like, IOW, at this point, Anonymous could just walk away, declare victory, and sit back while the house of cards that is Scientology folds in upon itself... right?
Are you still wearing blinders? There is every possible shade & combination of reasons people are in the cult - new or old. Some endure it to keep their family from being devoured and separated from one-another. Some people don't have computers (most of the world) and some who do, still can't cut & paste, let alone know what a search engine is for. They might fall victim to a lure unknowingly. It's perspective, bro. Sure, we know more than most scilons know. You need to know that. Our perspective is very informed, and everyone else, not as much.
He won the lawsuit until he settled for a bunch of dough. Then he pocketed the dough and broke the settlement, even though it had a $10K per violation liquidated damages clause. Then, by filing his own rantings pro se, he lost every single suit after that, and is now broke and on the hook for six figures in judgments, and has no money. Read his own site for his situation.
Scientology as it exists now cannot coexist. But Scientology could change into something that thrives on openness. Highly doubtful that would happen based on the way it is now though.
Worked for Christianity to different dimensions and depending on denominations. Beliefs take a long long time to change. Edit: I think most cells of the Freezone might be a good example.
like i said before, my guud friend, lay off the drugs and you'll start to make sense again, i promise.
The Anon protests could stop and Scientology will still fold in on itself. Yes. What is going on inside the Orgs is far most destructive and upsetting than anything going on on the outside.
no, not really. take las vegas for example, there has not been monthly protest here for a while as far as i know and no lv anons have been making themselfs know to the cult so they are blooming here. they have stress test tables out on the strip quite often from what i am told and seen, sea orgers handing out flyers on freemont street, and the parking lot at their emerson ave org is always full of cars and theres people constantly driving in and out of there.
I was talking from a UK point of view. I should have made that clear. It will probably always be able to maintain a presence in the US. That sort of thing belongs there. I just want it to disappear from Europe. If you read that article by the guy who formerly ran the Brum Org then you can see the folding in on itself is going very well in the UK. And we have photos of the decay at the Northumbria Ideal Org which is even more extreme.
You are right and wrong on this, IMO. Consistent presentation of the same message in our protests does effect Scientologists, as many exes have testified. I speculate that if that were to stop, that may empower Scientologists to think they had finally won, which might encourage them to stay. Now your opinion that Scientology might fold in on itself is supported by census data that the # of Scientologists in America seems to be dwindling over the course of the years, and with other exes testifying they are a shrinking organization. But keep in mind, the most recent census in the U.S. was done post-2008. So maybe membership was shrinking before, or after the 2008 protests started? There are too many things to consider on that, sadly. Few of which are measurable. To note, NoI seems to be joining their ranks, we're not really sure, only time will tell that. Now according to Marty and Mike, DM is ruining Scientology and causing dissent on his own, but if you think about it, Scientology is still a very strong organization for something that may only have 25,000 in the U.S.. It is supported by belief and lots of money. Implosions can happen even with such organizations but that can change also really quick. Sadly, it isn't that simple. I like to think Scientology can fall in on itself and fade away like many cults that began in the early 1900s, but there is still a lot supporting it.
they are all apples that have fallen from the same tree you should know that by now. all the int orgs are carbon copies from the us ones. as soon as you let down your guard they will thrive even if its just going out into the public and doing stupid stress tests or having leafers had out flyers.
The US is a sort of spiritual wilderness where any sort of religion and belief system can take hold and grow. There is not enough tradition there to measure a belief system against for it to tell you what is right or wrong. The US will always have nutty cults with the popularity ebbing and flowing. Anons there have got their work cut out.
you're still missing the point, but im not gonna argue with you about it anymore. carry on with your weird scilon appreciating rant.
The long-term staff members have had abuse heaped on them for years. Those who could not take the abuse have left so what we are left with are staff members you can heap any amount of abuse onto. If they got kicked out of the cult they would just end up in the same situation after a while so the cult is not doing them any net harm. And you can see thst the nasty people in the cult treat each other in a nasty way. There is plenty of information on the Internet about the cult so anyone who gets sucked in these days is a moron and they will mess up no matter what they do so there is no net harm. Although this is an unpleasant cult, the net harm it is doing society is probably less than zero. However, I do object to their having tax breaks because through this they get the enforced support of ordinary members of the public.
Wait, do people seriously think Roland is actually expressing positive I think you over estimate the impact that street protests have on the ebb and flow of members. I think that the biggest impact the protests have had is to give disaffected current members a sense that there is a community out there that they can move into should they decide to leave. Scientology is a totalizing organization. It's got to be tough to think that there's something wrong with you because everyone around you keeps talking about how amazing scientology is, all their wins, ect ect. Makes it very easy to think that there's something "wrong" with you. But when you see that there's a whole group of people saying "there is something wrong with Scientology" it's empowering. Suddenly you're not just the lone failure in a group of winners. Suddenly you can start seeing yourself as someone that has become aware that something is wrong- you can start to shift that identity outside the milieu of Scientology. That's why I love the "your doubts are valid" signs. It's so simple and to the point, but if it connects, I think it can have a really profound impact. At the end of the day, there's only two ways that Scientology will go down other than the group simply not being able to replenish it's numbers as time goes on. The first way is for there to be some sort of massive public outcry. I don't see that happening. Scientology is pretty small and insignificant, people just don't care that much. Nor should they honestly. Like I said, Scientology is pretty much insignificant. The other way I could see Scientology going down is some sort of massive legal investigations that disrupt the organization to the point that it can no longer function and it splinters into a bunch of smaller independent groups all claiming to carry the torch. I think this is the more likely scenario on the condition that there actually is widespread illegal behavior within the leadership core. The only way to make this happen is for exes to go to the cops and tell their stories and file actual criminal complaints that the cops can actually follow up on. Stuff like this Eastman case in Australia. At the end of the day, scientology isn't just going to vanish. Scientology, like any set of beliefs, will exist as long as people take it to heart. However the actual organizational structure is another matter entirely. That can certainly crumble. I dunno, I'm tired and rambling. tl;dr, don't get too worried about protest numbers. It's nice to have large turnouts but at this point the damage has been done I think. Whatever happens next is mainly on the shoulders of former members with stories to tell. Also you have good taste in music.
i know and you're right i just wanna make them shit their pants and cower in fear of the truth once again for many reasons, some very personal to me and others that are probably shared by every single person thats ever taken a stand against them. I worry because we have a very peculiar situation in Vegas regarding tourist exposure to scientology. Its not like your average town, where its always the same people watching you protest, getting smarter about the cult. The clams target the strip more that any other place in this town because there is never the same person at one give spot on the street ever and because they know they can plant the seeds of stupid in some idiots brain that might have otherwise never been exposed to their bullshit if they stayed home and propagate the disease that is Scientology. You know i wasn't expecting anyone to even know about GJ or the movielife on here much less having a hugbox moment over it especially with you. its fucking awesome! <3
