I have an idea about the fake news problem

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. The Internet Member

    Now I am confused. To recap the conversation:

    1. Mann Ace said Walter Cronkite lied in 1968 about Vietnam. I did not know what Cronkite said in 1968 until I read Ann's link:
    2. Cronkite wrote an opinion piece in 1968 which conveyed General Abrams' views post-Tet. Nothing Cronkite said sounded like a lie to me.
    3. Mann Ace clarified that the US won the Tet offensive. So I guess he feels Cronkite's sense of stalemate was a misrepresentation of what was happening. But I wonder why General Adams would have said the US should get out of the war if things were actually going well.
    4. Now you, dis, are saying that the press were too positive about how the US was doing. But Walter was actually negative. Then you say the press realized that they reported more Viet Minh dead than was the case. So the "lie" was the opposite of what Mann Ace was saying. The lie was in the direction of the war going well when it was not. But it does not seem that Walter was responsible for that.

    So was the lie that the US was losing when it was really winning, as Mann Ace claims? Or was the lie that the US was winning when it was actually not winning? And which part is Walter's fault?
  2. Anonymous Member

    My idea of fake new is /b/ pusing "cutting for beiber" and
    "Iphone wave" people actually fell for that shit in mass.
    If fake news causes people to harm themselves then....
  3. The Internet Member

    Fake news is funny so long as only a few people fall for it. If a lot of people are led to believe things that are not true then fake news becomes a threat to liberty.

    The choices people make are determined by the info they have. When a small group can get a significant percentage of the public to believe falsehoods they can control those people.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire
  4. Mann Ace Member

    Well, it seems that even with a historical event in my life time its hard to determine what the facts are.

    Did Uncle Walter lie? I was there, in person, listening, and I think he lied, but obviously, not everyone would agree. It's hard to get the facts, they cost time and money to ferret out, then you can't be sure you have all the pertinent facts...sussing out the truth ain't easy, as has been very neatly demonstrated for all of us by this discussion of Walt's lies.

    The Vietnam War itself was the result of a false flag operation (Gulf of Tonkin), the concept of 'body count' was a lie that we could win wars by murdering enough people.

    Since I offered a number of MSM lies, but Cronkite is the only one people are talking about, I assume that you agree that the other fake news was indeed fake.

    MSM has been lying to us for as long as there has been a media and the best we can do is sort through the evidence, and come to our own conclusions, based on what we have learned, and our values and views of how the world works.

    I see your focusing on Cronkite as simply your way to avoid the fact that there can be no arbiter of truth except the person, only the individual can decide what the facts means. And there's no guarantee they will be right. That is for time and reality to decide.
  5. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    1. The USA lost Tet. They continued to lose the war until they pulled out in helicopters leaving behind Vietnamese allies, some of whom clung to the helicopter until they fell to their deaths. The USA government told the people and the press they were winning right up until they bugged out.
    2. The Army lied about body counts. The truth of that came out sometime after Tet.
    3. Eventually the press realized we were being lied to and reported on that. Before/after conversations with generals isn't clear but it took awhile for the press and the people to believe the truth when the lies came from the government. What does this remind you of? Oh right- Iraq.
  6. The Internet Member

    So in 1968 when Walter said the US could not win the war in Vietnam, he was telling the truth.

    So why did Mann Ace say the US won the Tet offensive and Walter lied about things going badly for the US in Vietnam?
  7. The Internet Member

    When you get the facts ass backwards you are supposed to write, "oops my bad," not a tl;dr about how facts are subjective so nobody can tell you that you are wrong. Because last I checked L Ron Hubbard is still dead so you aren't him.
  8. Mann Ace Member

    As I think I've said before, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
  9. The Internet Member

    You said the US won the Tet offensive. Walter Cronkite said the US was in a stalemate in Vietnam, based upon what General Abrams told him. Disambiguation also said Tet was not a win.

    So I've got Walter Cronkite, General Abrams, and Disambiguation saying the same thing versus Mann Ace saying the opposite. Gee, which side is more likely to be correct?
  10. Mann Ace Member

    Still missing the point, aren't you?
  11. The Internet Member

    You said Walter Cronkite lied. Do you still hold that position?
  12. Mann Ace Member
    Again, it's hard to suss out the facts, and even when you do, it's hard to know you have all of them, or at least enough to draw a conclusion.

    So, lack of research on your part led you to a premature conclusion. I didn't lie, I was there, and remembered accurately, that the MSM lied to us about Vietnam, from start to finish. Which is what this thread is about, right? Fake news.
  13. Mann Ace Member

    still missing the point, I see? Don't you ever learn?
  14. The Internet Member

    You said there has always been fake news and you gave an example of Walter Cronkite lying to you back in 1968. But it turns out that your example does not back your point. Now you want to pretend that we are talking about some other point. But that makes you look like a person who cannot admit he made a mistake.
  15. DeathHamster Member
  16. Mann Ace Member

    Still missing the point, aren't you? Always fun trying to see you avoid the point. You dance so damn well it's almost like watching Fred.
  17. The Internet Member

    I explained my understanding of your point: that we have always had fake news. Funny your example of Walter Cronkite did not work out so well for you.
  18. Mann Ace Member
    Which is the lie. We actually did win the Tet offensive, but Walt claims we didn't.

    As I tried to explain, even if Walt didn't lie, the other examples proved my point. This seems to have escaped your attention.

    So, to recap, this Fake News issue is simply another distraction for the Left from having to face their new realities. Instead, they focus n silly things, like Comey, the Russian Are Coming, too many places showing Fox News, or whatever excuse du jour the Left has trotted out today.

    I have a question: is too much schadenfreude bad for you?
  19. The Internet Member

    I can only discuss one point at a time. Plus I could not read the full link you gave about Cronkite
    because the article is behind a paywall.

    From your latest link
    I do not see the lie in this. Winning is more than body counts, which reportedly were misleading at that time. Winning has to include further strategy leading toward defeat of the enemy. Seems that was not an obvious thing after the Tet offensive.

    Walt made clear he was not reporting the news but his own subjective sense of how the war in Vietnam was going. So you cannot use this as an example of "fake news."

    What makes you think the US won the Tet offensive? According to dis the body counts were distorted by the military. Then stuff did not go well for the US afterward in spite of a US escalation of the war. That is hard to explain if North Vietnam was soundly defeated.
  20. RavenEyes Member

    I don't know if I was angry or not, bb. (I'm always a bit mad. Ask anyone.) I can't remember what I was rambling about, TBH and don't feel like rereading my (probably incoherent) diatribe. I'm in a good mood tonight. :) Sorry if I was a bitch. I'm sure it won't be the last time. Sometimes I do it to troll. Sometimes, it's unintentional. ;)
  21. Actually we lost the Tet offensive. We said we won it. But that doesn't mean we won it unless you believe everything the government says. We. Lost. Tet. We. Lost. The Vietnamese War. Fin.

    " Although the offensive was a military defeat for North Vietnam, it had a profound effect on the US government and shocked the US public, which had been led to believe by its political and military leaders that the North Vietnamese were being defeated and incapable of launching such an ambitious military operation, whereupon the U.S. public support for the war declined and the U.S. sought negotiations to end the war." Wikipedia
  22. The Internet Member

    Seems to me that neither side got what it wanted from the Tet offensive. The North Vietnamese failed to gain ground. The US failed to weaken the North Vietnamese enough to shorten the war. Kind of a stalemate. Like Walt said.
  23. The Internet Member

  24. The Internet Member

    Finally, a real call-out on Jeff Zucker, the guy who turned CNN into WWE by making trained journalists "debate" colorful retards who think alternative facts are a thing.

    Too bad he won't hear the smack-down over the sound of his glorious ratings.
    • Like Like x 1
    The next Pulitzer Prize is in the making every time that fat bastard tweets.
  26. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Thank you so much for this post, I've been laughtering for hours catching up with the whit Bee's vids, fantastic and level-headed take on a whole bunch of super craziness.

    People of America, beware this carnival that came to town, not your normal circus ~ In this one the biggest dangers are not to the performers, but to the audience at large, and the actors sure as fuck don't give a damn about anything until all their nests are well padded... then there will be even less. Plundering of the Earth continues until it dies, might as well use it all up till we're swimming in an unsurvivable swamp. What the stupid elitists etc.etc. don't realize is, that by the time they think they haz escaped to their various 'paradises', the world will be so fucked up it's going to be dripping all over them, and for them there will be no escape, it ain't a big planet, I think you can only tilt it so much before it retaliates.
    My mini-rant /opinion for the evening, probably edit this a few times when I sober up and start thinking stupid again :p
    I go nao.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  27. The Internet Member

    Interesting comment:
    Screen Shot 2017-04-30 at 11.41.50 AM.png
    "Steven Crowder, Stefan Molyneux, Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin, Ted Cruise..." Screwing up "Ted Cruz" suggests the writer is a propaganda bot.

    I looked at some of the profiles of people trolling Young Turks videos. Several had a number of videos about Stefan Molyneux, a guy who is reportedly grooming a political cult. The buzz of shared narcissism weaponized.
  28. DeathHamster Member

  29. The Internet Member

    Thanks. I don't know much about Molyneux, just that he thinks disconnecting from your family because you don't agree on stuff is a good idea. And that his fans self-define as libertarian. That's why I thought Molyneux was a pseudo-intellectual political philosopher.
  30. This has got to be the best video on You Tube right now.
  31. White Tara Global Moderator

    I just wasted 7 minutes of my life to find that my hypothesis was wrong :(
    protip: Its not brown.
    Also, stay on topic please.
  32. The Internet Member

    Searching WWP I learned that Stephan Molyneux has a number of fans here, including adhocrat, BrainStorm, JohnyRUClear. I didn't realize this guy was so popular.

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