"Let's bitch about Southern/Confederate History!" NSFW warning

Most of them were build as a "fuck you" to african americans. Most of them aren't that well executed (fugly as hell) build in the Time of Jim Crow.

If a statue is really old, like a hundred years old, I think it's useful to keep it.

But a lot of the civil war monuments sprouted up pretty recently --many in the last 20 years. Doesn't that strike you as creepy? Why do we want to romance Confederates like they were movie stars?

We have to tell black people that they are our brothers and sisters. But they won't believe us if we leave Confederate props lying around. They will think we want to go back to the "the good old days."

Would southern whites during the civil war hug and hold hands with blacks just like family? I think not. So let's send these statues off to whatever museum wants them. That way we can be friends with everybody. Potentially.

You should have reported your own post ans kindly request a moderator to move it for you... Oups.

Protesters? More like Rioters....

But it's okay because the law is coming for them one by one....eight of them so far and all have felony charges on them.

"Jim Crow" is a euphemism for the era of peonage from 1867 to 1945, that Americans are in deep denial about.
Most of these statues were put up from 1920 to 1960 and feature people who took up arms against the U.S. government in support of slavery.

"Loyalty to country" is Orwellian. Creepy.

I'm sure all the mafia lieutenants who died fighting for their mafia families were brave and loyal also. But fuck them.

The alt right talk about fighting for their "rights" and their "culture." But when was the last time you went out to eat white food? What are the white holidays? What is the white language?

White is not a culture. White is a skin color. Actual cultures can assimilate people with a range of skin colors.

I think the american nazis have a point about "their culture", which is based on entitlement, grandiosity and punitiveness.

As a modest suggestion for compromise, I would suggest that the Confederate monuments (other than those erected since the 1920s) remain, but with the text on the plinth reading "Luser" or" Epic Ass-Whupping" with the dates of their defeats clearly shown, in the interests of historical accuracy.

I believe only some stone monuments were erected in cemeteries in the 19th century. No statues.
The statues were erected when the U.S. Department of Justice continued to prosecute Southerners involved in Peonage and after 1945, when the Civil Rights Movement picked up momentum. Historical Revisionism.

Tara this monument sits on the Fort Pulaski historic site (public land) honoring the memory of thirteen men who died due to deliberate starvation by the Union army as POW's for refusing to take the oath of allegiance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Six_Hundred

And it was erected by descendants of the "Immortal Six Hundred."



This monument sits in the middle of the Court Circle (public land) in Gloucester county Virginia and was dedicated in 1889 by local Confederate Veterans.

Should it be removed?

What sort of Confederate monuments should be removed?

A majority of monuments were erected in the early part of the 20th century around the time of the anniversary of the war.

No compromise.

FUCK those ASSHOLES

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...omb-confederate-statue-park-article-1.3429966

The anniversary of the U.S. civil war would be 1960. Most statues went up from 1920-1960 before the time frame that you cite.

Greater by far than these Confederate generals who fought for a DisUnited States of America, in the interests of white supremacy and black slavery, and at the cost of so many young lives, was Rosa Parks.

She never fired a shot - she sat on a bus - and yet her actions brought a country to its senses, and gave back to the non-white citizens of America the rights that were denied them by the white majority.

Let there be more monuments to reason, to civil rights and the values we seek to encourage, and far fewer to the memories of unspeakable injustice and inhumanity.

Normally citizens who take up arms against the US government are arrested, tried, and convicted of treason which is a capital offense. Hanging would have been the result. But for some reason the Union officers decided to withhold food. Maybe they were ambivalent about killing people who had served beside them in the past. I don't know.

I would leave the monument in place and add a display with more information so it is clear that we aren't making noble martyrs out of traitors.

I don't like historic displays that inject too much propaganda --i.e., a message that strongly suggests how an audience ought to feel about the information. But we cannot have white supremacists walking around like they own the place. We need to come to terms with the fact that a significant number of people have sadistic drives and very little shame. Those people need to be told, "this is bad and you should feel bad for liking it."

Maybe most of the people involved with anti-fa are well meaning. But once it appears socially acceptable to destroy property and hurt people --at least to a sub-culture amongst us-- the mad bombers, fire bugs, and sadists come out of the woodwork.

Any monuments that fail to condemn the Confederacy as a shameful chapter in our history.

Really Johnny_Reb we are long past debate. A young woman has been senselessly murdered. Enough is enough. Put away your hero worship, your costume play and your toys. Grow up or go fuck yourself.

Great timing - Kansas City's mayor was just having the same conversation with some city council members and community leaders proposing the same solution. He wants people to understand that those memorials can actually educate about some shameful aspects of our country's history more effectively if left in place with supplemental on-site information (like you've also suggested) and teacher-prep materials (example) than to remove statues, leaving people with a vague "xxxx person was racist" memory.

So far, the idea's been met with disapproval. People would just rather be indignant about dusty things than some facts: KC is #2 in Child Sex Trafficking, KC is high up in Human Trafficking Labor (Trafficking is Slavery, so more relevant now than in the olden days.), our city isn't hung up on dusty concrete like other parts of the country, etc. We've got a problem with kids killing kids and it's skyrocketing.

Maybe you could contact him, TI, and give your support? I'm serious.

September 9 Richard Spencer and some Nazis have a march planned here. Other white-supremacist militias are coming. That means Antifa will show up. We've got one of the most lax gun laws. Additionally, there's a large group of 3%-ers saying they're coming back. BLM. Oh - they're meeting up at Liberty Memorial, a park housing the the largest WW I museum.

All of this is coming to a city that's had 6 Black teens gunned down just this week from mostly gang violence, all from the urban core, some headed to college this weekend; others to middle school. (Kansas City, KS and Kansas City, MO Yes, two separate cities also rank much higher, each, than Chicago on the FBI murder-per-capita stats recently.)

The war was not over in 1860. The timeframe you reference has to do with the Presidency. Look who came into office right after 1960. 1963 to be exact.

Yikes sounds like a recipe for more senseless violence. Maybe if we sleep on it one of us will come up with a brilliant plan.

I've never seen anything positive at all coming from Antifa.

If you disagree with them they beat you for it.

Ugh! I see another Charlottesville!

Come on, Johnny_Reb1865, you know that all these monuments to a buncha Lusers are keeping down the morale of the southern folks.

How about some monuments to winnars like this one, chosen completely at random from among the Union Army's finest?

They have monuments too and some are even down South.


How about more monuments like this one in Atlanta?

https://www.google.com/search?q=atl..._AUIDSgD&biw=320&bih=452#imgrc=dk885tRkASee6M:


How about we leave the monuments alone and worry about more important shit?

You're a passive rather than an active racist. You don't want to hurt black people but you won't do anything about the white supremacist problem.

If black people are intimidated by Confederate icons, hey that's not your problem, right?

If I had a favorite hat and my wife was weird about it because of some scary shit she went through years ago, I would be like, "oh baby if that hat upsets you I don't need it." Because some things matter more than other things.

People learn about history from books and teachers. They don't learn it from flags and monuments. It isn't necessary to put flags and monuments in parks "to preserve history."

Why should it be?

I can't change the way they think.

Some black people are uncomfortable around Confederate flags and monuments that's just the way that they feel.

I feel differently about it than some of them.

So it's not my problem I have more important things to worry about.



I won't do anything about the white supremacist problem because I CAN'T change the way that those racist assholes think.

It's wrong to judge people by their race.

Those assholes think that black people are inferior to them and I wholeheartedly disagree with the way that they think.



But I can't change the way that they think But at least I can tell my future children that it's wrong to hate someone because of their skin color.



What are you doing about the white supremacist problem?

Like posting the same things again and again here ? LOL...

Believe it or not I actually have a life. : )

All of that is more reason to leave the monuments alone.

Focus on stopping murders, sex trafficking etc. now rather than worry about pigeon shit covered bronze and stone.

I am a case-by-case person when it comes to these civil war memorials. I need to understand the context in which the memorial was created, who wants it, who doesn't want it, how historically significant, how artistic, etc.

Do the white nationalists rally at the monument? I'd lean toward removal if that is the case.

The important thing is to welcome black people, brown people, all humans basically, like brothers and sisters worthy of care. If a memorial is getting in the way of that welcoming attitude then we should move it to a museum or other more private setting.

People always matter more than things.

Actually quite a few statues were erected during the years after the war starting in 1866.