[Mar 5, 2011] Freedom of Information Rally (Dallas, TX)

International publication of the U.S. diplomatic cables continues, courtesy of Wikileaks; Julian Assange's extradition hearings have begun in England; the Republicans tried to pass an extension of the Patriot Act; and the FBI is wondering what you're doing with that there Uh-Non-Ee-Moos Internets. Sounds like a great time to let our voices be heard again.

Dallas's January FoI rally saw a fairly inspiring turnout, especially considering the short notice, so spread the word and let's make this one bigger and better than the last.

new to the forums. Got it marked, table of 4 possible more plz.

Good stuff. I will be there again this time. Anyone got some flier ideas or want to paint the spirit rock?

I really liked the downtown protesting. Perhaps we should attempt a side walk march to keep moving. Also Some flyers about the US govt. Pulling info from Twitter, and how they didn't like it before when Isreal did it. I really liked that one Anyone know where those stories are?

Although... it might be an idea to try going to other City Downtown Areas. idk how people would feel abou trying to protest around Fort Worth or something. Thoughts?

Yes, the government subpoenaing all those twitter accounts is a very pertinent issue that we should have signs for. Also the inhumane treatment of Bradley Manning should be a very important issue for this protest as it is going on right now and MANY people are completely unaware. Also republicans are trying to push a Patriot Act extension through without any major reforms or even debate over reforms as was promised the last time they voted on the bill, so we should be talking about that.

Two thoughts before next time: We need a more exposed location and an easier way to communicate our ideas.

As for the location, the first one didn't work. It sucked to get moved and there was no exposure. Would it be legal/possible to protest at a DART station? There's a ton of traffic there. DART is funded by the city, but the rest is a legal mystery. Someone, please ask a lawyer that would know.

As for communication, we were trying to yell what we thought through lowered car windows. We also tried to pass out fliers to the homepage, but the article they would find was about scientology. It just didn't work. We need a short URL that's easy to remember, something along the lines of www . whyweprotest . net/Dallas. The bit.ly/9E83fsgsdgsgherigt885EFHc link on the rocks at UTD was fine, but people can't remember meaningless strings of letters and numbers.

If the Admins let us post a small page with the Dallas link, we can send a clear and direct message that people will actually see. Failing that, a simple link to the freedom of information page would be okay, but it's not that persuasive.

Also, if anyone goes to a local college, see if there's a way you can mass announce it on campus without being arrested.


Finally, maybe bringing a thermos with soup or a sandwich would be a little more anon than taking off our masks at McDonalds...

LOL

How bout setting up across the street from the Fed building?

I leaderfag all the stuff against Scilons.... so I'll let someone else step up.

At the January rally there was some kind of construction ongoing directly across from the Fed building; a concrete barrier was in place along the sidewalk and chain-link fences had been erected behind it, so probably not the best place for a group. Additionally, there just isn't much traffic at that end of the street, and even less foot traffic. This may have something to do with the fact that, as a government building, it is closed on Saturdays, but in any case I think there is good reason to try a completely different location this time, somewhere with better exposure and fewer logistical problems.

LOL!! I just noticed everyone saying their coming to the Scilon protest is also coming to this one. THE EXACT SAME PEOPE!

I wasn't there. I'm a newfag, but I watched the video's and I agree.


I liked the Idea about Rail stations. Lots of foot traffic there. I think Someone mentioned a legal issue though?

I'm looking through the Dallas city codes now about Dart and trying to find a loophole to allow megaphones legally.

In the meantime, look at these two youtube channels. The first is a Canadian Philosopher that isn't entirely relevant to our work and the second is a very skilled British protester that can teach us a lot, but keep in mind that he's working within the confines of British law that are different than they are here.

They are Stefbot and Cveitch.


Update: Volume 2, Chapter 30-2 of the Dallas city code prohibits three things of relevance.

(9) The shouting and crying of peddlers, hawkers, and vendors that disturb the quiet and peace of the neighborhood.
(10) The use of any drum or other instrument or sound amplifying equipment for the purpose of attracting attention by the creation of noise, to any performance, show, sale, or display of merchandise as to attract customers to any place of business.
(11) The use of mechanical loudspeakers or sound amplifiers on trucks or other moving vehicles for the purpose of advertising any show, sale, or display of merchandise.

This means that we CAN use a megaphone because we are not attracting to a performance, show, sale, or display of merchandise. More to come soon... (Also, I need to find the exact ordinance)

Also, under 30-4:

(a) A person commits an offense if he operates or causes to be operated any mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier in a public place or upon any public sidewalk, street, alley, or highway of the city in violation of any of the following limitations and requirements:
(1) No mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier may be operated within 150 feet of the property line of the premises of a residence, except between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and sunset, as designated by publication in a local newspaper of general circulation.
(2) A mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier may not emit loud and disturbing noises so as to interfere with the enjoyment of life or property or to interfere with public peace and comfort.
(3) A mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier must be operated so as not to cause traffic congestion or congregation of crowds that obstructs any public sidewalk, street, alley, or highway.
(4) A mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier may not be operated within 150 feet of any:
(A) hospital;
(B) school that is in session;
(C) nursing home; or
(D) facility that provides surgical services to patients who do not require overnight hospital care during the hours of operation of the facility.
(b) In this section:
(1) RESIDENCE means a single-family, duplex, or multifamily dwelling.
(2) SURGICAL SERVICES means therapy of a mechanical or operative kind, including, but not limited to, operations involving cutting, the setting of fractures and dislocations, and similar manual forms of treatment.
(c) If conduct that would otherwise violate this section consists of speech or other communication, of gathering with others to hear or observe such speech or communication, or of gathering with others to picket or otherwise express in a nonviolent manner a position on social, economic, political, or religious questions, the person must be ordered to move, disperse, or otherwise remedy the violation prior to arrest or citation.
(d) The order required by Subsection (c) may be given by a peace officer, a fireman, a person with authority to control the use of the premises, or any person directly affected by the violation.
(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that:
(1) in circumstances in which this section requires an order, no order was given;
(2) an order, if given, was manifestly unreasonable in scope;
(3) an order, if given, was promptly obeyed;
(4) the mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier was operated in a public place within an enclosed structure and was not audible beyond the property line of the premises on which it was located;
(5) the person operating the mechanical loud speaker or sound amplifier was a law enforcement officer or member of the fire department in the performance of official duties;
(6) the mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier was operated for the purpose of alerting persons to the existence of an emergency or danger; or
(7) the mechanical loudspeaker or sound amplifier was operated in the performance of emergency work necessary to restore public utilities, to restore property to a safe condition, or to protect persons or property from imminent danger, following a fire, accident, or natural disaster. (Ord. Nos. 13744; 18798; 19455; 21878; 24835)


This means that as long as we do not use a megaphone near places like a school or residence, we're good. It also states that an officer must make a reasonable request to end the violation prior to being allowed to arrest or fine. In essence, anything we do is fine in this regard as long as we have good planning and common sense.

My research has also said under 31-22 and 31-22.1 that we can't demonstrate in or within 150 feet of Stone Place, Four-Way Place, Thanks-Giving Square, and Bullington Street Mall without a permit from the chief of police.

Isn't it great that American law is so simple? Anyway, can someone help find out where Stone Place, Four-Way Place, Thanks-Giving Square, and Bullington Street Mall are? Also, I can't find the law regarding audio and video recording. I know that Texas is a One-Party recording state, but verification would be great.

Just an FYI, I will not be taking part in these protests. After researching and forming my own opinion on this issue, I've decided that I must remain neutral in this matter. I do wish you all a good luck, and look forward to seeing you at future Scientology protests.

Just an FYI, I will not be taking part in these protests. After researching and forming my own opinion on this issue, I've decided that I must remain neutral in this matter. I do wish you all a good luck, and look forward to seeing you at future Scientology protests.

This if a FoI rally. Not scientologist. Although I respect your oppinion as I wish everyone respect my own this is the wrong thread.

lol wut? Can't you see he's letting us know that he won't be attending FOI?

I'm not in the wrong thread good sir, I'm only letting you guys know that I'm not attending these protests. And since a number of the people here also protest Scientology, I'm simply letting them know I'll still be there.

Though I respect your right to disagree, your position is flawed. The fight against scientology is a branch of the fight for freedom of information. If the truth about scientology was available to people, they would never join. In fact, it is the free distribution of information that you use at anti-scientology protests. By your very nature, sir or madame, you support freedom of information. You will simply not be present.

/Agree
/Amen

I want to explain myself here, however, I know that everyone has better things to do in this thread than read a large wall of text explaining why I'm neutral on the issue. So once more, good luck, and hope to catch you later.

Eh, do it anyways... and if it's tl;dr we'll be sure to tell you or just ignore it.

It's not as if these boards are completely free of irrelevant data. A politically conscious mind needs a good discussion from time to time. At most, you earn respect and/or change some minds. At worst, you're still anon.

I would be interested in hearing your argument, too, even if it takes a TextWall to explain yourself. We're all here because we're already interested, and anyway now that you've gotten explicit requests you can be absolutely certain that you aren't "burdening" the forum. No pressure, of course, but if you did want to explain I see no reason why you shouldn't.

You also don't need to justify yourself, or your position.
Other Anons may be curious as to your reasoning and thoughts,
but its your conscience. In the Anon herd, cats do their own navigation for better and for worse.

"Freedom of expression" includes the freedom to keep ones own counsel, and the freedom to not express, as desired

Xenu bless your continuing efforts toward dismantling Miss Cabbage's Curious Hubbard Cult. I can't speak for every other fite, but this one is worth fitin for. <3

Now to my knowledge, this whole deal started with Wikileaks and how they're being pressured to stop releasing information and whatnot, and that's what these protests are pretty much defending, Wikileaks. (If I'm wrong, PLEASE tell me)

First off, I do believe that Information should be free and released among the public because it's a part of history and is good to know so we can make a better future. HOWEVER, if the information is sensitive to a time or an event that has not happened yet, it's best to keep it a secret.

A simple example we can all relate to...Surprise Birthday Parties!

Now I know this doesn't seem like anything related to the protest but I'll get to it. If you've ever been a part of a surprise birthday party, you know how the whole deal works. A friend's birthday is coming up and they have no plans, so their kind friends decide to throw them a party, but the person doesn't know about it until the party happens. It's always great fun to plan them and the reaction is usually awesome.

But here's one thing that's bad about planning a surprise birthday party...someone just can't keep their damn mouth shut. It happens from time to time when one gets planned, someone spills the beans to the birthday girl/boy. This sucks, because now, the fun has been taken out of it. In my view, Wikileaks is the person who spills the beans...

Why?

There's only one issue that I can recall, but one issue is enough for me here. Especially when it's a big deal like this one.

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia sent a letter to the United States, asking them to attack Iran. The whole point of keeping this secret, is because Iran had no idea of this happening and Iran has the power to take over Saudi Arabia, which is why they sent their concerned letter in the first place.

Well this information found its way to Wikileaks and, of course, they released it. They spilled the beans to the surprise birthday party. Now Iran knows what Saudi Arabia (and some other surrounding countries) wants to be done, which puts them at the mercy of Iran.

Freedom of Press?

Don't get me wrong, I'm for freedom of press, BUT, I believe Wikileaks should have thought about what harm releasing classified information like this can bring.

I AM FOR:

• Freedom of Press
• Freedom of Information (as long as it doesn't harm any plans or actions)

I AM AGAINST:

• Wikileaks for releasing information that gives an enemy of ours, an upper hand.

This is why I'm neutral, because I don't agree with some of the things Wikileaks has released, and I personally can't defend something that has done wrong in my eyes.

^
I might have rushed a few things in here, but this is my view.

One could easily argue that ignoring that information would just be helping Saudi Arabia (and some other surrounding countries) to one day put the people of Iran at their mercy. In the end they are all people. Everyone always brings up potential scenarios where people die because of the leaks. There is indisputable evidence that people have died because of the lies.

If larger spotlights were kept on corrupt organizations and governments then there would be no need major secrets to leak in the first place.

I respect what your opinion friend. But think of this. Brad Manning would stand for you if he thought your human rights were being violated. So I have no problem taking a little time out for him since our government is pretty much sociologically breaking him down and torturing him. Not to mention our military killing children. The examples go on and on. I think we have yet to see any of this potential damage the media talks about.

Another way Wikileaks is like Scientology... You do enough research, and you get pissed off.


PS: I understand the point... But everyone I can think of hates surprise birthdays if their over 16. Not trying to act like the wise and all knowing, but when men in powerful positions get together and cover up murders of women and children it's not like planning a birthday party at all, and I think the beans need spilled in as many places as possible. Again, I understand the point. I just think your point is in need of a much better analogy.

Thank you for your input, it definitely helps me out a lot with building a stronger opinion. Like I said, I am neutral in this because there's a lot of other things that wikileaks released that was good to be released. I can see now that I wasn't very clear, but my "Surprise Birthday" analogy only applies to the letter. The murders and all that other stuff, don't go with it.

But again, I'm gray with the Wikileaks issue. I don't want to protest until I'm black and white with it all like I am with Scientology.

Fair enough sir. Fair enough.

You should get Mike's opinion.

The root of the issue is that national and international law is being ignored by the governments involved, namely the US and the puppet states of the US like Sweden and GB.

It's not that we're protesting that people have a right to free press and speech; people already do. We're protesting that people have a right to free press and free speech without false imprisonment and possibly murder. The international legal community has begun a stance that anyone that a western government dislikes is without basic human rights. It happened a lot with POWs from Afghanistan. They were denied POW status under the Geneva convention under the grounds that they were not a "legal" army. We didn't fight it then, so it's tougher now.

The fight for Wikileaks is a fight for the idea that human rights are not given by the state, but by the nature of our existence. If we fail, it is the final straw of "government for the people" breaking. If we fail, tyranny is law.

We need to hurry up and set up a meeting spot.
Seeing as this is next week D:

Any one want me to check out downtown, since I'll need to be in the that area this Saturday anyways. I'll see if I can get a camera to take some shots.

How about Main Street Garden Park, downtown? We ended up walking there last time and it has plenty of room to spread out, and, with borders along Main St and Commerce St, much better visibility, especially since the weather probably won't be as miserable this time.

Thoughts?

EDIT: The hyperlink is broken; Google "Main Street Garden Park Dallas TX" and the location should pop up.

Sure; it definitely can't hurt.

this will be my first anon rally...can i get more info or be guided to where i can find more info? Thanks in advance!

Here:

http://wiki.whyweprotest.net/Raids_Dallas,_Texas

Secured meself a camera I'll grab my notebook and go downtown tomorrow and start taking notes on people traffic on locations.

Field Agent Dispatched! Excellent! I'll take your notes tomorrow and put your findings in the Wiki page for FOI rallys.

oh and on a related note. I forgot I was going to be busy this weekend. Sorry I can't help IRL... but like I said I'll help with updating the wiki with info and stuff

If you want some pics or vids dumped there leave them here or in your follow/ post game report. I'll get em.