Meeting with OSA CANADA

Meeting with OSA CANADA

OSA did not know that I was 'out' until my father saw me with the book: I had just received my copy of "My Billion Year Contract" by Nancy Many, and he reacted just like any Scientologist would - he spent 5 hours trying to tell me that the book was evil, the author was "out ethics" and "insane" and he warned me "do NOT read that book! It could send you into a whole track implant!" This went on and off for over a month. While my dad fiercely attacked the author's intentions, he never agreed to read the book.

When OSA Canada got the word, the CO OSA, Yvette Shank, invited me down to the CLO to 'discuss the matter.' She said I didn't have anything to lose. She was right. I was already aware that my father was going to disconnect once I was declared. At least I would get a chance to express myself honestly since being out of the Sea Org.

When I arrived, I wanted to see for myself if this "security lockdown" was still in effect on me. As I walked into the front doors at 696 yonge st, sure enough, the receptionist jumped up from her seat, as if to block my path to the elevator. When she saw that I was with the CO OSA, she returned to her desk, looking a little agitated. She must be confused, I thought. Last time I walked into the building, we had a friendly chat. What a difference!

I sat with the CO in the conference room in OSA. This is a brief summary of our discussion:

CO OSA: The real enemy is the Psychiatrists and the World Bank...

Wiseman: I know, but that doesn't make it okay to anyone to treat me that way.

CO OSA: Your dad loves you. He doesn't want to lose you.

Wiseman: I know he loves me, but I am losing him. Why are you taking him from me?

CO OSA: Were not doing anything with him.

Wiseman: Well, you're declaring me because I don't like the way I was treated-

CO OSA: You restimulated something.

Wiseman: I have felt this way for nearly a year - how can this be my irrationality if it has lasted so long? I understand that Marty Rathbun hit people in the SO, so it is questionable that he claims DM did it.

But it isn't like "I tried to keep people from seeing their family, and now I'm blaming you for it". I never tried to trap people. I always felt people should get to see family.

You know, I somestimes want to believe that it was my fault, that the Sea Org is flawless, because it's hard to face the facts when they are this bad.

CO OSA: The reason you weren't authorized for your LOA is because you had a lower condition assigned.

Wiseman: There never was a "lower condition" Check my ethics file. It was just something Cope Off dreamed up, and then she told that to Snr I&R who believed it was real. My Disapproved CSW has no mention of a lower condition. I bet Cope Off or Snr I&R couldn't even tell you which type it was.

CO OSA: OK, so Snr I&R made a mistake. We all make mistakes, and this CLO is far from Ideal. It isn't easy getting to that level - it takes work.

Wiseman: What is Ideal? What direction are we going toward? From what I have seen, I think the 'ideal' Management org is a scary thing.

I recall a CMO INT mission called down here to handle the "out-ethics" in the base. The only thing I know that they did was to reduce mealbreaks from 45 minutes to 30 minutes.

CO OSA: Well, maybe we should change that back to 45 -

Wiseman: That's not my point. The point is, that was an action by CofS International (Ideal management) and the product is: MORE restriction. With an attitude like that coming from Los Angeles, what do you think their attitude will be about letting people visit family? Which leads me to question what 'ideal' really means.

My family time was disapproved because I hadn't done any Basics sales: I disagreed with the way the sales were being pushed. In that case, a condition would have just been intended to force me into agreement with the stat push, which I would never agree with.

CO OSA: The Basics helps people when it is sold to them!

Wiseman: Not the way CLO Canada has been doing it. Each week for the past 18 months, the primary focus has always been money. Every time the quota is assigned, it is measured in dollars. $50,000 per week for CLO Canada, right? And it doesn't matter what it is: A sale was considered "one Basics package or 5 libraries", as long as it was worth $3,000, it counted. And we stayed up late if we didn't make enough money. And that was another order coming from int (ideal) management!

Just look at the way CMO Canada operates - what are they forcing on the rest of you? Helping people - No. Making money? Yes - Every day!

(SNR I&R Canada joins the meeting)

CO OSA: Well, they aren't running the place. I do carry out my own business, and we coordinate, but they -

Wiseman: Don't lie to me! I worked here for two years, and I know how it works. CMO Canada is in charge, and we do what they want. And they seem to want money. Every couple of days, CO CMOCAN would come down to the CO CLOs office and yell and scream, and she would say things like "Mike, I want more money!"

But money is not going to help people. Look at the CLO Org Board - look at the VFPs of a CLO. Or look at the VFPs of a Class V org. Nothing about money! Why aren't we accomplishing our VFPs?

SNR I&R: Look at the stats

Wiseman: YES! Look at the stats. TOTCASHCONT (Total Cash income for Continent) is up, sure. We've practically done nothing but sell stuff for the past year and a half, of course were making money. But there's another stat: Clears. And it is 0 for Canada. It has been flatlined for the past two years, and probably longer then that. But did you ever hear CO CMO yelling in the halls about "No clears?"

SNR I&R: wow, no... you're right...

Wiseman: I should know, I was the one who put the stat papers up in the hallway every week. I saw all the stats every time. But the first stat is TOTCASHCONT - And that is the only one CMO seems to care about.

All these actions are from orders that come from Int management. And I believe SNR I&R acted on Int mgmt orders when she was taking such extreme measures to trap me here, and followed orders when she was yelling and throwing books at me.

If that is the kind of behaviour that they demand from SNR HCO Canada, then I can only conclude that they operate that way themselves. That is why I believe that it is near impossible to escape from Int Base.

CO OSA: So you think that we're trapping people in the Sea Org? That's silly. If anyone wants to leave, they can do a routing form, and then go. We aren't forcing them to stay.

Wiseman: Well, I wanted to go - Not even permanently, I was coming back in a week - and what happened? I was yelled at, threatened, and put under close watch. I am not saying you physically trap people, but you do whatever it takes to convince them to stay - including heavy threats - and that is not okay with me.

CO OSA: I don't get it - If I wanted to leave, I would go on a routing form and -

Wiseman: and be made to do MEST work for months wh‎ile doing lower conditions which include having to decide between the group and some supposed 'enemy.' It is being used to convince a person to stay.

CO OSA: It gives them a chance to think about it before making a final decision. If they still feel that they want to leave, then they leave.

Wiseman: Okay, well there's no doubt about you - you have been working in management for over a decade, and I do believe that you could get out if you decided to.

But, you and me are very self-determined people. We don't let anybody push us around... that is for sure.

But what about somebody who lacks the self determinism to stand up for themselves? I must admit that SNR I&R's yelling and threats scared the wits out of me. If I were any younger, or less determined, I would probably still be here, but not willingly.

CO OSA: Who do you feel is not here on their own determinism???

Wiseman: I dunno... That 14-year old boy who was recently recruited?

CO OSA: hmph...

SNR I&R: It's not like I wanted to stop you from seeing your family...

Wiseman: Well, maybe you didn't consciously try to stop me from seeing family. But that was the result, wasn't it? Even now when I am out of the Sea Org, you will cut me off from my father. So I still can't see him, even when I am not a member any more.

You see, when all this B.S. happened to me while I was in the Sea Org, I became aware of something. It is a force that is present within the combined actions of all members of the Sea Org. There are little things...

...Like, CMO staff aren't allowed to answer the phone! I don't know what the reasoning is, but it the result is that these people become so cut off from the rest of the world, that it's almost like they are in another universe.

... Or on the EPF, you aren't allowed to walk away from other members of the group, and you all work on the same task. It serves to make you forget about being your own self... You slowly lose individuality...

... Or how we don't get off work until 12AM. The result is you can't call your friends or family... They are all asleep. And it's hard to call during meal brakes - so little time. And no internet either. So the overall result is, you are slowly cut off from the world.

I don't know how to explain it to you. It isn't like SNR I&R sits in her office wickedly laughing, "ha ha ha I have trapped everyone here..." It is a mix of a bunch of different things. And Sea Org members become 'interiorized' into the building. It happened to me.

Its not easy to understand. But I think that you are not consious of the results of your actions. I know you mean well. I do. But you will only understand my point of view when you examine the overall result of what you are doing. That result was, definitely, I was not given permission to see my family.

(OSA and SNR I&R sit up nervously. They have had enough)

CO OSA: (Reads an LRH Letter, goes like this: people try to make nothing of the group when they fail to make nothing of the enemy... That is the main reason a group fails)

CO OSA: We don't like to have to declare people, but we do it if we need to. It really serves to show you what you need to do. It leaves the door open just a crack - and shows you how to get back in once you come to your senses.

And with that, the meeting was over. They sent a CSW to Los Angeles to get me declared. 2 Months later, it still hasn't come back.

I found out it's because they they are too busy with... selling stuff.

-Wiseman of the Watchtower

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

And then CLO said to NSP, declare or beware of the trains on the OTracks, HCLO entered the room, and metastimulated the PTS into MEST implant with an engram on the way to Bronze Base.

In other words, learn to speak fucking human again.

Those aren't even real titles/words, and there is a real world, or business world equivalent name for all of those gay ass shortenings of even gayer titles.

Stop speaking like a fucking moonbat.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

No cutting, because people need to read this.

Genuinely cool story, bro. I hope you nurtured the seeds of doubt in their minds.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Wow! I'm impressed that you were able to make all those points in the meeting. The part about zero clears in two years is shocking. Maybe you got someone else thinking just a little bit.

Congrats!

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

wow

seriously

you just won the fucking internet

i particularly like that you're saying that your declare hasn't come in yet - ya they're probably busy selling

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Thanks for this.

By the way FurFagsWorldWide, that's how they really speak. Just Google the acronyms.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

World Bank? Huh, I thought it was the psychs and pharmaceutical companies all this time.

WHERE'S MY CHECK???

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

To wisman .
I was disconnected from my dad in 2008.
So I understand .
But in your hart you knew you did the right thing.
And that is what makes a real person.
One who can have his own view point.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Have I been around here too long if, as someone who was never "in", I can understand all the sci-speak?

An interesting transcript, that's for sure. No "Clears" in the whole of Canada for several years, and nobody cares as long as you're making money still?

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

PROTIP: instead off trying to talk to them, just tell them to fuck off as loudly as possible. infront of the whole org.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Hey how about this: fuck you furfag.

The guy is telling us a story, and it's important that the world know how fucked up shit is in there.

Also, some of us like to know just how crazy scilon speak is... so we can imitate it. The guy is out. Be happy in that faggot.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Well fucking done.

The way you expressed the ideas that management controls Sea Org with the power of suggestion and fear... 100% right on the money.

Now, take a leap of faith here and try to imagine how the same tactics could be used to manufacture "wins and gains" in scientology.

Zero clears in two years. Go go Canada! Just further proof that the Co$ works for CST and not RTC.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

They just need somebody to falsely attest to Clear (every Clear is false anyway), and they'll have an upstat of INFINITY PERCENT.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

What's better: that Anons learn to speak scilonese, or ex-scilons learn to speak English?

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

That dialogue is worth a lot if it took place. To have someone speak to people in these high-ranking positions, apparently creating doubt by mentioning some of the issues is priceless.

Scientology is about money and buildings, not about clearing the planet.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

He's recounting a meeting between Scientologists, so he should be accurate when recounting it, not changing anything. The post doesn't suggest that the ex can't communicate with non-Scientologists. And it's not really super-difficult scilonese either - this is actually easily understandable when you look up the acronyms. There's plenty of LRH writings which are almost incomprehensible to a non-expert even when you know what the acronyms stand for.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

If it is important "the world know how fucked up shit is in there" then how about telling your story in a language that is actually widely accepted by real life people.

I will go out on a limp here and suggest the Queens olde englishe.

This story isn't going to let "the world know how fucked up shit is in there", this is going to let people who are already 100% convinced that it's all fucked up all happy inside.

It doesn't mean shit, when exes talk to exes about how bad it all is, if no real people, who've never been cerebrally raped, can understand a word you are saying, and it also never leaves WWP or the other obscure OCBM hugboxes, then wooptie fucking doo, it means absolutely nothing.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

That was awesome, Wiseman. I don't know if any of it got through to them at all, but you certainly gave them the opportunity to think. Whether they did or not was their choice.

Good work.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

FurFagsWorldWide, I think that is a tirade that's been stimulated by reading other posts by ex-scientologits. Why don't you find those threads and respond there - instead of here where it doesn't make sense?

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

OCMB, WWP, exes, fursecution, hugboxes, moonbat? What the hell does those words mean? Why don't you use English, FurFagsWorldWide?

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

You are right actually, my response could have been targeted at a more (in)appropriate thread.

The point still remains, if this alleged conversation/information is to damage Scientology in any way shape or form, it needs to be translated into a real language, and disseminated.

If we simply spend our time sitting in a circle telling each other EPIC WIN and sharing old cult stories, then we are not beneficial to our only goal: taking down Scientology.

Scientology should only be "understood" (you cannot understand it, as it is not logical, but you can robot it when need be) insofar as it will benefit towards it's destruction.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

sorry wiseman, but just the fact you walked back through those doors means you still have a long way to go in your recovery. good luck.

and , you might want to consider throwing away your scilon dictionary.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

I do by and large agree with you, but part of the stated goal of taking down scientology is to get members currently inside to blow.... and they will definitely understand what's being said here. In that respect, I view this story to be incredibly valuable.

You are right tho, if we tried to disseminate this particular story to the press it would be too fucked up for most people to sit through. But that doesn't mean it has no value to the cause.

Getting the message to those currently inside is very important to the cause, and this story has the potential of getting right to them.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Well, do you think ex members read here?

I just have the feeling that half of the posts here are directed at ex-members who can then pat themselves on the back.

As you say, our goal is to end Scientology, not to make exes feel good about themselves.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Yes ex-members, anons, the press and the general public all read here, and they understand that this is an inside look into the organization. As such it's not difficult to understand. The language is clear and understandable, the use of paragraphs and bolding to indicate who is speaking, is well applied.

It also helps anons and others learn how to speak to scientologists, without being super-difficult.

It sounds a bit like this furfag is butthurt about hearing there were no clears in Canada. (just kidding)

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Hai gais, what does "OSA" mean and what is "book"? I be confuse.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

<3

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

NO U!!!!

1. He's recently out. It takes a while to recover from a cult mindset, and this cult even more so.

2. He's speaking with Scilons who've been in a while. As such, they're goiing to be speaking Scilonese.

3. Get over yourself. Just a suggestion...

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Best response yet...

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Going back through those doors and speaking with them honestly, making points and maybe opening a couple of minds by just a CH is a part of that long recovery. You'd have a point if he'd broken down crying and moved back in. But he said his peace and walked back out, head held high.


Epic Win for us? Nope. Epic Win for him? A resounding yes...

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

sounds like it's huggytiiime!

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

No, that's normal. You just don't feel the need to complain about scilon words in a thread that contains conversation between two scilons on a board about taking down Scientology.

Cause, you know, that would be retarded.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Thanks Wiseman, for the look inside the Organization.

BTW for the rest of the Anons, "reverend" Yvette Shank CO OSA, is the "President of the CoS Canada".

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

hope you read my book and your dad eventually reads it. Sorry, but it's all true. And Mental Abuse is still occurring all over the world. Your dad is living in a bubble.
loveya,
nancy

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Wiseman: check your pms.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

except "fursection" those all make sense in this context, not even comparable. Even after 2 years of intense chanology I still don't get some of the words used in OP. How can you reach the public if you can't communicate?

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Wiseman:

I knew Yvette Shank when she was just another mousey timid little woman who was ever so grateful that LRH and his "tech" had made her a little less mousey and timid. It looks like she has long since shed her "Miss Pattycake" skin.

I hope, you realize that these people are fanatics who really believe in what they are doing. It is almost pointless to talk to them. As far as they are concerned, you are wrong and they are right. They have Ron on their side. It's too bad about your Dad but I don't see any thing you can do about that either. Some things may be out of your control.

Your own life is under your control to a large extent and you should start living it. There is a whole world out there that doesn't think that the sun rises and sets on Scientology and you should join us.
It is called the real world. Reality, what a concept!

If you want to protest the cult, then fine, but forget about talking sense to those OSA fanatics. It is a waste of time.

"If you want to do something for yourself today
Try walking away"

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

Not "fursection". "Fursecution".

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

This topic does a good job of demonstrating some of the key functions played by the scientology argot.

Re: Meeting with OSA CANADA

argot