School shooting in CT

This is a thread about the recent school shooting, please try to talk about that.

Kthnx.

Self defense is a right.
Property is a right
Therefore guns are my right as a person
(But since we don't agree on what 'right's means, all we're doing is going in a circle. Unless and until we come to an agreement about the nature of rights, all we're doing is using concepts that mean different things to different people, so when XIL and I say 'We have a right' we refer to our natural rights. What i don't know is what most of the others mean when they say I don't have the right.)

Not at all true and you were given the facts. Also I mention that the same day that the CT shooting took place a guy in China stabbed 22 kids.

Wou

Would you like me to list more? Not at all fail on my end but yours. I just proved if a student wants to kill they can. The issue is not a metal object. Sorry you fail again.

When someone takes the time to document something and not other actions you can get what looks like a one sided issue. Maybe they can do a page confirming 2.5 million defensive uses in the US but we wont.

With all respect setting aside the insults I do believe at the hart of are arguments is the school shooting. We clearly have some heated debates on how to fix it and what the causes are for it. I for one will try to push for a more positive focus.

Geneticists to Study Adam Lanza’s DNA

• By Caroline Bankoff

Connecticut's medical examiner has askedgeneticists at the University of Connecticut to study Adam Lanza's DNA for biological clues as to what led him to carry out his shooting spree in Newtown. A school spokesman confirmed the plans but declined to release details of the project, which has not yet begun. Experts say the researchers will likely be looking for gene mutations or abnormalities associated with mental illness and, in particular, an increased risk of violent behavior. However, news of the study — which is believed to be the first effort to examine the DNA of a mass killer — has so far been met with a mixed reaction from scientists, some of whom are already worried about its potential to cause problems for people who share genetic characteristics with criminals but have not committed crimes.

As Harvard Medical School's Dr. Harold Bursztajn told ABC News, "Given how wide the net would have to be cast and given the problem of false positives in testing it is much more likely we would go ahead and find some misleading genetic markers, which would later be proven false while unnecessarily stigmatizing a very large group of people." He added that launching the study as a seeming "quick fix" for those eager to gain insight into Lanza's actions might prove "counterproductive to our long term safety and ethics." After all, eugenics and other ugly practices were rooted in past efforts to identify and weed out undesirable genetic traits.

Focusing on the results of the study could also prove problematic since there is basically no data to compare it to. "The problem is there might be a genetic component, but we don't have enough of a sample size," said Dr. Heidi Tissenbaum of the University of Massachusetts medical school. And even if researchers do accurately identify something unusual in Lanza's DNA, it's not going to give the full story — nor can it really predict the actions of others like him. "I think it's much more than a simple genetic answer, but an interplay between genetics and environment," Tissenbaum added.

For confirmation of the concerns surrounding the study, look at the way some seized on reports that Lanza had been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome as a potential reason for the massacre. While advocates were quick to publicly fight back against that theory, it's not difficult to imagine a much more harmful public reaction to the results of a genetic study, which would be even more open to wide misinterpretation than something relatively well-known like Asperger's.

DNA of Newtown Shooter Adam Lanza to Be Studied by Geneticists [ABC News ]

There is the rub. We will learn how to predict which unhappy young man will explode by research and the research will be used badly by some. Do we stop?

Self defence is a right
Property is a right
Therefore (enter weapon of choice here) are my rights as a person.

And you can't see the fail in this?

Again you retort with an attack at a school that has fuck all to do with guns!

P.s, how many died in the Chinese attack?

It is when the number of fatalities are as high as the American ones!

Try again, this time come up with examples of school shootings in the UK as that was the point of the question, not poisoning or stabbing of individuals but American style mass killings in schools.

Thanks for proving my point.

Again it is irreverent, you do have the issues and where guns are not the issue it is something else. You can not change the fact that if someone wants to do a mass killing, no amount of gun control will help. As far as proving your point, if you mean 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year, sure Each one of those is a school shooting, beating, mugging, rape, murder or other crime that did not happen because someone had a gun. Great point, I am glad to have made it for you.

Completely irreverent. There have been mass shootings where everyone lived and knifings where everyone died. There was even an expert FBI agent talking about this very thing just after the shooting. Size of the victim, placement of the wound and length of the knife or caliber of the gun all are factors, you have proved nothing. My point still stands, the guy stabbed 22 kids. But had they died would you be demanding registration of kitchen knives? We cant have those plastic cheap easy to get your hands on knives in the school cafeteria! Again, stop blaming the object and focus on the cause. GUNS ARE NOT A CAUSE!

Can this thread die now? Its too full of words.

XIL
Guns are regulated because they are so efficient at killing. You are right, there will still be mass killings but it won't be as easy and it won't be as effective. It's more like those without an easy way to murder groups of people turn into serial killers instead of mass killers. Bad but so much better.
Someone a can kill with a knife but it takes longer, it is more likely the police/ brave bystander will intervene and targets can run away.
BTW I support the right to bear arms. Lets be reasonable here. Multi-shot weapons should not be available to crazy /sane unhappy murderers/criminals. The only way to stop that is to ban them.

Should *not ^

Just admit you cannot find a list of school massacres in the UK involving guns. That was the question, it doesn't matter what you babble on about, the fact that you refuse to answer the question shows your claim that the UK has the same problem as the US when it comes to gun crimes in schools was nonsense.

The beginning of this crime was another crazy person, his mother, who had an arsenal at home and taught her son/ a child/ to use then efficiently and made them available. Someone who has guns and lets those guns loose is a committing a crime too. Part of reasonable gun ownership is to keep the guns from being taken. The gun my friend found on the floor of a theater should be confiscated and the owner ticked at least.

Some countries mandate that homeowners have a gun so that they can mount a standing militia, these are countries with no regular army who have made themselves peace brokers. Guns are an effective way of self defense from invasion. Military capabilities have changed, at least in the US a ground invasion is impossible, but a country with guns is more difficult that a country without them.

Hmm, ok, let me just try to understand what you are saying, China, 22 school kids stabbed, all survived. America, 20 school kids shot, none survived. And the weapons used are irrelevant?

Do you read and think about what you type?

Scientists need to study his mother's DNA too.

Listening to the pro gun lobby on here has made me realise why the US has so very many incidents like Connecticut. The gun is sacred no matter what the price, and sure as shit is shit it's going to happen again, and again, until the pro guns wake up and smell the roses.

Basic facts, there are crazies in society, they will flip and try to take a few out on their way to the hereafter. With a knife it's slow, you don't always get a kill and you have to catch the kids to do damage, with a handgun it's easier, fatalities are high and you can stand still and pick them off if you are a good shot, with a semi auto large mag weapon it's shooting fish in a barrel, no skill needed, kids don't stand a chance. Bombs kill lots quickly but I think half the motivation is watching kids die, ingredients for bombs are not close at hand, you can't go to your spare room and knock up a large explosive device when you flip out, if you do there will probably be only one victim.

The choice is yours USA, what weapons do you need in your everyday lives? Do you really need the same weapons as the military? If your answer is yes then you should change God bless America, to God help America.

lord a mercy, the language sure is loaded.

I can see the fail in your formulation, sure. Was that a trick question?
You want to 'restrict' my right to guns. The only way to do that is to use violence against me, not for the act, but only for owning something.
You want to use violence against a peaceful citizen,
You don't see the fail with that?

lol

Rights, my fellow folk, rights, Defend your fucking rights or lose them to government predation.
Only here, it seems too many here are willingly giving up their rights in the futile expectations that it will help the be secure.

So........if you decide you want to have chemical weapons.....?????

I'm not keen on handguns but I can see the argument for them, what I do have a problem with, and it bewilders me why you don't, is military semi auto type weapons. Prove to me you need one of those fuckers to defend yourself and I will gladly let the argument lie.

P.s you are using the same old NRA type tactics, "oh my god they are trying to ban ALL guns"

That's not what most of the anti gun posts are calling for, it's a dumb tactic and proves you are on weak ground with your argument.

It is what they do. All or nothing. Extremists making extreme arguments based on fear and not logic. Can't decide if it is lack of ability to be free thinking or because they all have a small penis and need big guns to compensate. I cannot understand why there is no room for moderation in their stance.

See! Just more words.

Responsible gun owners from semi-auto to single fire in the US have the right to own firearms please don't sensationalize the issue because of current events.

Or all the other "events" eh!

^ NRA member.

Clearly english is a real issue for you and understanding is beyond your capabilities. If you go back and re read what I said you missed a huge part, but when you fix the facts to fit your point of view that is not a surprise. Tell me for the sake of the kids, what are you going to do when the gun control measures fail? Just keep ranting on? Or would you like to discuss other measures to reduce violence and incidents?

Norway:
http://rt.com/news/breivik-letter-prison-murderer-473/
China:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–2012)
and about every other country. Google for more.
That said, there has been "a rash"of subway pushings highlighted in the press recently.
Maybe we should outlaw arms? (That would also help with stabbings, massage parlors(human trafficking) and domestic violence.)
One day, just maybe.

In the future can we predict homicidal violence?

^No

I bet we can. There is something about these school shooters that is different from all the unhappy suicidal young men that don't take out a school.

In 2011, 6.9 million children under five died worldwide why not start wondering about that first. A whopping 20 got killed in CT sad but in the great scheme is a USA life worth more than the rest of the world, only in America.

Plz increase font size

True
False
You believe we should ignore the 20 killed because there is tragedy and death everywhere? Give up much?

In 2011, 6.9 million children under five died worldwide why not start wondering about that first. A whopping 20 got killed in CT sad but in the great scheme is a USA life worth more than the rest of the world, only in America.
or almost 19,000 per day it's done they are dead get over it