Scientology and the Bible (1967)

Discussion in 'Leaks & Legal' started by Anonymous, May 15, 2011.

  1. subgenius Member

    i don't believe in a God that gives a shit whether we believe in God
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  2. Anonymous Member

    Likely She grew up a long time ago, got over dealing with the problems of the human race, and moved on to something better.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. AnonLover Member

    digging up more oldie but goodie related stuff...

    The 1979 edition of Volunteer Minister Handbook w/ the first version of the religious leaders under a book-toting scilon on the mountain pic


    Old Threads:

    The opening preamble pages at top of page on the sauce link above is relevant to cult's flawed perception of their religiosity
    • Like Like x 1
  4. subgenius Member

    Mose Allison's latest ("The Way of the World") has a song.

    "Modest Proposal"

    "Let's give God a vacation
    (S)he must be tired of it all
    Rigging the game
    Takin' the blame
    Twenty four hours a day on call"

    greatest god troll ever
  5. subgenius Member

    ps he even mentions Allah
    balls of steel at his age
  6. subgenius Member

    "(s)he gave us the power to reason
    use it or lose it they say....
    (s)he put the sparks in the clay
    so let's let it go for a season
    and start makin' sense to day"
  7. alexjorge Member


    Thanks a lot.

    I never see this tittle before.

  8. Anonymous Member

  9. TinyDancer Member

    Thanks. I had missed this.
  10. Natter Bored Member

    For context (IIRC), when this book was published, it was relatively the same time frame as the scilon magazine promo from the 60's that showed 2 scilons inside a space ship, with tin foil helmets, and 1 scilon walking outside on an alien planet with an e-meter. Total 60's sci-fi imagery, with cheesy space costumes.

    Apologies, I'm a bit scatterbrained at the moment. Old timers can probably pull up the image.

    < edit > Death Hamster has the image somewhere, but I can't find it ATM.
  11. Natter Bored Member

    As anticipated, Death Hamster's encyclopecidic collection of knowledge and information proved trustworthy.



    • Like Like x 4
  12. Anonymous Member

    For ages I though this was just a joke. Fuck, the lulz, it can't be said in words!
  13. Anonymous Member

    Are those OSA agents shopping for a gift for Marty?

    Also, Hatch.
  14. OTBT Member

    Uh, seriously, check with Death Hamster for more dox.
    I'm fairly useless these days.
  15. CarterUSP Member

    WHERE DO I START? I nearly farted myself inside out when I saw that.
    I'm trying to find the words, but alas I can't.
    • Like Like x 4
  16. OTBT Member

    See, I love being helpful, even when it's not obvious.

    Perhaps OG DeathrHamster would consider posting in a new unit of time a summary of the massive amount of dox he has, so others can find it (Hint Hint)

    or at least a link to his library of dox.

    < hint >
  17. DeathHamster Member

    It's not like like I have any new dox, it's just that I try to snag anything that floats past. I'll work on making it available.

    And digging into my media backlog:
    • Like Like x 2
  18. AnonLover Member

    Input/HALP wanted from other Christfags, Artfags, Researchfags, etc.

    In order to have a proper mix of original content &amp; fair use content, I'm working on coverpage/artwork to use on several research material packets. Here's my clay demo...

    For Christfags: ^^What should that last line of ??????? be? I'm thinking sumthin liek this:
    1. Where is God on the Scientology Bridge To Total Freedom?
    2. Why is there no God at the end of the Scientology Bridge?
    3. (or sumthin similar?)
    ^^feeback bak wanted - plox vote 1, 2, or 3 + fill-in-blank, ITT. TIA!

    For Artfags: can a girl w/ severe shoop disabilities get a bologna sandwhich?
    • What 4 fonts should I use on the bottom line in order to try 'n matchup with the footer text &quot;God is too big to fit into one Region&quot; ??? OR, better yet....
    • Can somebody do me a better job of assembling a snazzy looking collage from original artwork? If so, i dumped the parts &amp; pieces i used here: Picasa Photo Album
    For Researchfags or other lurkers, here's my topical subject matter for each packet gathered so far. The context here is &quot;How Scientology compares itself to _____&quot;
    • Major religions &amp; religious leaders [abrahamic belief systems]
    • Buddism
    • Gnosticism
    • Spiritualism &amp; Indigenous Spirituality
    • Ancient mythology &amp; pagan beliefs
    (more to come on the topical fronts once i get past coverpage, excerpt harvesting &amp; packet layout stuff)
    • Like Like x 1
  19. AnonLover Member

    expanded research packet coverpage demo to show were/how artwork fits in...
    ^^bottom line font on artwork seemingly figured out
  20. OTBT Member

    Oh hiya, its the weekend again, and I'm on meds, so this might be rather nonsensical, but I'll give it a shot in one go.

    Try working with this concept, rewording, whatever...

    The concept of God or a Supreme Being is very carefully, deliberately, and openly, not addressed or defined in Scientology. The 8th Dynamic is very clearly not explained in Scientology.

    One of Elron's tapes states something about Elron doesn't believe in any "Big Thetan" (GOD in wog-speak). Which is why he doesn't give much credence to wog morals or wog laws.

    Truly, I'm sorry I can't give dox or tape numbers, but Ron spoke this shite somewhere. Not sure if the lectures were "confidential" upper levels or regular tapes. Probably SHSBC crap. Old timers, please feel free to chime in and correct my useless ramblings.

    Any minor errors, please do accept my apologies. Main idea crap, I'm pretty sure of. Google and OG are your friends. Ask them.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. moarxenu Member

    Brain is just waking up. But for ??? the following comes to mind:

    L. Ron Hubbard is the only God you need!

    There is no God but L. Ron Hubbard, and L. Ron Hubbard is his Prophet.

    Who needs God when you have L. Ron Hubbard?
    • Like Like x 1
  22. AnonLover Member

    So regarding the last line of the coverpage artwork...
    Thats a good idea... use an actual Hubtard quote rather than state a question. (i just need to find the quote/citation for it)
  23. RightOn Member

    is this any help?
    "In addition to having visited Heaven, Hubbard has also rewritten Genesis.{33} "Before the Beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of effect," etc. He has also rewritten the calendar{34} to read "A.D. 1, A.D. 10," etc., (to stand for "After Dianetics 1951," "After Dianetics 1960"), as if his discoveries were as important as the birth of Christ. When Hubbard first came out with Dianetics he wrote that it was a "milestone for Man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his invention of the wheel and arch."{35} Now he sees Scientology as purer than Buddhism, Taoism and Christianity.{36} "

    "For heaven's sake, tell them I'm not God."
    -- L. Ron Hubbard, quoted by Eric Barnes, Public Relations Chief of New York Church of Scientology

    The Hebrew/Christian God lives in a trunk with a leopard skin, according to Hubbard.

    "Men, then ... a whole lot of people will say carelessly 'Well, God is everywhere', remember that this was an idea which was introduced rather lackerly in christian religion. The God of which they speak, of whom they speak continually, eh Yahweh, Lord knows how it's produ.. pronounced, because it is so secret, that nobody is really is supposed to be able to pronounce it, so they ommitted all of the vowels in the word, and they spell it only with it's consonants. So Lord knows how this word is to be pronounced, but the more agreed upon pronunciation amongst scholars so they can talk about it is Yahweh. And this is the Christian God. But he lives in a trunk with a leopard skin. That's right, that's the full story of it."
    • Like Like x 2
  24. AnonLover Member

    RO that is getting mighty close... I'll go thru the SOS citations this weekend and look for a trail to follow to possibly find the "There is No God" quote.

    i also seem to recall it being on a vid where abit of lecture was spun into fair use clip, so i was gonna look thru the hubbard lecture mockery vids as well.
  25. RightOn Member

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  26. RightOn Member

    "Ah, but, it believes only one thing: 'I am fixed in space by an exterior determinism'. Now remember that, that is real important in the subject of exteriorisation. And this Thetan is surrounded entirely by this complete belief that something else is fixing everything else in space, although he can't find any source of this, so we invent God."

    L Ron's actual voice clips at this link

    From "Assists" lecture. 3 October 1968. #10 in the confidential Class VIII series of lectures:
    "Anyway, Everyman is then shown to have been crucified so don't think that it's an accident that this crucifixion, they found out that this applied. Somebody somewhere on this planet, back about 600 BC, found some pieces of R6, and I don't know how they found it, either by watching madmen or something, but since that time they have used it and it became what is known as Christianity. The man on the Cross. There was no Christ. But the man on the cross is shown as Everyman. So of course each person seeing a crucified man, has an immediate feeling of sympathy for this man. Therefore you get many PCs who says they are Christ. Now, there's two reasons for that, one is the Roman Empire was prone to crucify people, so a person can have been crucified, but in R6 he is shown as crucified."

    "From "Assists" Lecture. 3rd October 1968. #10 of the confidential Class VIII series of lecture:
    "The entirety of Roman Catholicism - the devil, all of this sort of thing - that is all part of R6."

    From "Assessment, Memories, Ridges", Exteriorization and the Phenomena of Space. 27 October 1953:
    "Now the MEST universe is all very well, but it's all illusion. One doesn't want an illusion, so he can't have an illusion, and when he was very young, why, Christ was alright, he was very friendly as a matter of fact, and so on., but that's mostly, people, you know, they have to believe in that sort of thing, and they did once, but it requires nothing but faith, and of course they can't have any faith anymore, and they did have hopes on that once in a while, but actually religion doesn't lead anybody anyplace, in the final analysis, because you never get your wish anyway, so of course one can't survive on the basis of spirits and religion and so forth, so that leaves just of course God, and of course God naturally exists, because there's all this space around here, and this space is obviously surviving, so of course it's obviously surviving, of course space itself is liable to collapse but the Prime Mover Unmoved is not liable to collapse, because he created all this and maybe he can't either, and nobody yet has come up with as flat a 'can't survive', as 'God will never again be able to create anothe MEST universe'. But if we mentioned it brother, it would be out in the streets."
    • Like Like x 3
  27. moarxenu Member

    Good points. There is an article somewhere perhaps at WKP that says that though God is mentioned he is completely dispensable to the functioning of the Scientology system.

    From the a comparative viewpoint with orthodox monotheist theology, God is replaced by thetans who have the attributes of God - they have no beginning and no end and they created the phenomenal world of MEST. Therefore, God is completely dispensable to the working of the Scientology system of salvation, such as it is.

    God is referred to only in the vaguest of terms - the Infinity of the 8th dynamic. This discloses absolutely zero about the nature of God and his relationship to the universe and humankind. Salvation does not come from God but from L. Ron Hubbard.

    Scientology claims that it leaves it adherents to discover God on their own. Since they are given no teaching about God or provided with means of religious practice to actually experience God as all authentic religions do, this is completely empty.
    • Like Like x 1
  28. AnonLover Member

    or rather - salvation comes from your own doing, as you move up the bridge to OT (which of course is LRH's doing)

    thus i was originally thinking for use on the generic cover page on my research packet compilations, the phrase "Where is God on the Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom?" was the best fit for multi-faith interest.

    but i'm now liking the thought of having an actual one-liner LRH quote on the existence of God & would likely be lots better. (Thks RO for chasing me down good starting points - all good stuff I'll dig into over the weekend)
  29. TinyDancer Member

    1. Scientology's Bridge To Total Freedom: What Would Jesus Do?
    Edit: But that doesn't fit a multi-faith audience.

    My feeling is that the bridge is a distraction for a Christian from time spent reflecting and praying and... all that it is to be a Christian. The bridge doesn't lead toward Jesus, God the Father or Heaven. JMHO
    • Like Like x 2
  30. AnonLover Member

    I liek this... and had similar thought. but i was hoping to craft something more generalized so that my coverart image would appeal to interest-levels spanning multiple faiths (so altho perfect for Christians... not so perfect for hebrews, muslims, buddists, & new agers who recognize a single God w/ the worldly view of all God-based religions have some truth)
  31. TinyDancer Member

    Yeah, I realised that after I posted it (hence the edit above). Ah well.
  32. AnonLover Member

    This isnt quite the angle i was stewing for...
    shows too much judgment being cast / personal bias. since these packets are meant to catalog snippets of source material to aid original research in a comparative religion vein, I'm looking to dish up scilon sources and put the relevant stuff for each different topical genre on the table for the reader to dissect/analyze & judge for themselves (according to their own religiosity viewpoint)

    ^^That way the compiled info will appeal as ideal materials for use as possible online citations (or poonage lings) for multiple authors/researchers in multiple disciplines/faiths.
  33. AnonLover Member

    RO this is a possible winrar... red'd the part that i'm partial too
    One-liner extract for coverpage footer line...
    EDIT: or if that doesnt fit limited space well...
    and then use the full-size expanded quote (as originally posted above) on the 1st page following coverpage (like a dedication page)
    • Like Like x 1
  34. RightOn Member

    glad to help! <3
    • Like Like x 1
  35. AnonLover Member

    Hell there's enough useful stuff to reference on that link, might just be worthy of making into excerpt citation for a full page spread on God quotes.

    here's expanded text + audio links copy/pasta 4 future reference... action items to find/nail-down red'd

  36. AnonLover Member

    ^^This link is another win rar!! but for a different purpose... this make a great companion reference to the leak in OP, for showing the cult's bs propaganda comparisons to more realistic ones.

    So from "Scientology and the Bible" booklet, i grabbed these pdf page numbers for an excerpt: 1-4, 7, 16-25

    Then on the link above - I'd like to recycle that content and add some moar Christfag bible quote comparisons to the old OG list, and give it a major update for use in my research packets.

    Anybody got any suggestions? Here's the first easy one that immediately jumps to mind for me...

    "All men are basically good" -- Hubbard/Scientology


    "For all have sinned and do need the glory of God." -- Romans 3:23

    other suggested additions?
    • Like Like x 1
  37. Anonymous Member

    yeah it was a cool link
  38. RightOn Member

    whoops! that was me ^^^
    • Like Like x 1
  39. AnonLover Member

  40. AnonLover Member

    Some more readily available Christfag bible comparison quotes found.

    Reference: Challenging Scientology With The Gospel Of Jesus Christ, by Rev. Kurt Van Gorden 2002. (cults index)


    "There are gods above all other gods . . . there is not argument here against the existence of a Supreme Being or any devaluation intended. It is that amongst the gods, there are many false gods elected to power and position." -- L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor’s Bulletin #130


    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." -- Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJ21)

    "Ye are My witnesses," saith the LORD, "and My servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me." -- Isaiah 43:10 (KJ21)

    "Fear ye not, neither be afraid. Have not I told thee from that time and have declared it? Ye are even My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Yea, there is no God. I know not any." -- Isaiah 44:8 (KJ21)


    "You will find the cross as a symbol all over the universe, and the Christ legend as an implant in pre-clears a million years ago." -- L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditors Bulletin, #130


    "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denieth the Father and the Son." -- 1 John 2:22 (KJ21)


    "It is despicable and utterly beneath contempt to tell a man he must repent, that he is evil." -- L. Ron Hubbard, Professional Auditor’s Bulletin, #130 [i need2find copy of this!]


    "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in Heaven give good things to them that ask Him?" -- Matthew 7:11 (KJ21)

    From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." -- Matthew 4:17 (KJ21)


    "...personal salvation in one lifetime [is] freedom from the cycle of birth and death [reincarnation]..." -- L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology: A World Religion Emerges in the Space Age, page 16. [Haz this been leaked???]


    "that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." -- Romans 10:9-10 (KJ21)


    Question for leak hoarders - anybody got a copy handy of the two sauces that i left [red love notes] on above?

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