Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Graham Berry, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Anonymous Member

    I guess I don't get it. What do you think will be accomplished by doing this - that they'll tell WWP that there is or isn't already an ongoing investigation into the cult? Guess what? THEY WON'T TELL YOU.

    I'd love to see Graham's dox that the FBI has received 300+ first-hand accounts with evidence. I won't see it, though, because Graham's not privy to that. No one is. But, you all just keep on freaking out about the petition and now the White House's response, because it takes much less time (and balls/ovaries) than walking into an FBI office and providing them with what they've actually asked for. I've done it, and if I can do it - so can you!
  2. Anonymous Member

    I think the point is to make government entities aware of this problem. We hear a lot from Nancy Manny about how the OSA rivals the intelligence bureaus of most countries, and somehow knows and learns of searches on Scientology property before it happens. GB and other critics have proclaimed Scientology pays former FBI agents who still have old clearances to get info on investigations against them to outwit and evade prosecution. We don't necessarily know if its accurate or true, but it doesn't hurt to do some outreach to make critical people in these bureaus aware of the problem. I find it scary that a multimillion dollar cult can go through such lengths to get away with human trafficking or organized nationwide harassment. Besides if the FBI, DoJ, or other bureaus do not want this to be an exploitable vice by other criminal organizations, its a good idea for it and other investigatory bodies to look at themselves and ask: "what are we doing wrong?"

    Besides, it makes for good material for the press if we get a response. :p
  3. Anonymous Member

  4. Xenu Is Lord Member

    Completely disagree. We have the right to petition the government for our grievances and a right to expect a responce. They have failed and we have a right to address that. To say we are badgering them is an insualt. It is not badgering to expect your government listen to you and take action. Awww I guess it is all over, lets go home, the did not listen and we don't want to badger them. LOL
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Anonymous Member

    Thanks for the well-written response. This makes sense to me now. :)
  6. Anonymous Member

    Nobody said to give up on the White House and go home. The White House directed us to the people we need to contact first. It is probably it cannot do anything until the issue escalates to a level where they would have to decide whether or not to step in. Its like going up the totem pole. We started at the highest and got a response and a reference to inquire to. So why not try it and see what happens?
  7. Anonymous Member

  8. Xenu Is Lord Member

    We went there because the people they directed us to did crap. Try reading the petition. Again what the white house said is false and based on that they need to answer for it.
  9. Xenu Is Lord Member

    It needs more Moxon
  10. Anonymous Member

    So we were already petitioning the DoJ and the Attorney General?
  11. Xenu Is Lord Member

    Yes, every time there is a complaint to the FBI you are doing just that. They report to the Attorney office Generals and it is the AT that decides to bring charges, not the FBI. Again none of that means a thing because the administration can do exactly what it said it could not do.

    The game that is being played is called (Lets pass it around till they go away)
  12. Anonalong Member

    I don't see how this White House response on DOMA and action is somehow exempted from not interfering with matters pertaining to other departments. To me it makes the response to the investigate Scn petition seem like a slap in the face. Why couldn't the response have been: "President Obama has long believed the Co$ is up to no good and acting with the Attorney General has so informed the DoJ to stop defending the Constitutionality of a private law firm stopping the FBI investigation." The things that are already on Prez' agenda or vote-getting platform, get action. The ones that aren't, get "Why We Don't Feel Like Can't Comment."!/response/repealing-discriminatory-defense-marriage-act

    President Obama believes that DOMA is discriminatory and runs counter to the Constitution. He has long supported its repeal through the legislative process, and he supports the Respect for Marriage Act, which would repeal DOMA and is currently pending in both Houses of Congress. And earlier this year, the President and the Attorney General announced their determination that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional. The President instructed the Department of Justice to stop defending the constitutionality of that provision in the courts, and since that time, the Department has informed courts that it believes that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Although they gave an unsatisfactory answer for the first petition, here is another petition they answered that is relevant to our interests:

    Remove tax exemption from churches and allow them to apply like a non-profit organization

    Currently, churches usually receive tax exemptions based of off their specific religion and sect. If a specific sect is not already recognized, they are able to apply to become a recognized religion. This process gives the government the authority to determine which religions should and should not be recognized as 'true' religions in our country, a clear violation of the first amendment.

    Official White House Response to Remove tax exemption from churches and allow them to apply like a non-profit organization
    Tax-Exemptions for Houses of Worship in Light of Constitutional Guarantees

    By Joshua DuBois
    Thank you for signing this petition regarding the tax-exempt status of houses of worship.
    The separation of church and state outlined in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution is an important founding principle of our Nation. Our Nation's Bill of Rights not only guarantees that the government cannot establish an official religion, but also guarantees citizens the right to practice the religion of their choosing or no religion at all. Internal Revenue Code section 501(c), which addresses tax exempt organizations (including religious organizations), and the Internal Revenue Service's (IRS) "Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations," reflect these principles.
    In particular, the IRS Guide provides for an automatic exemption for churches and other houses of worship that meet the statutory requirements of section 501(c)(3). These requirements include, among others, that the organization be "organized and operated" exclusively for certain purposes (including religious and charitable purposes), that no part of net earnings inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder, and that the entity not involve itself in political campaigns.
    Houses of worship, however, need not rely on the automatic exemption. As the IRS Guide observes, some houses of worship may consider it beneficial to obtain IRS recognition of their tax-exempt status: "such recognition assures church leaders, members, and contributors that the church is recognized as exempt and qualifies for related tax benefits. For example, contributors to a church that has been recognized as tax exempt would know that their contributions generally are tax-deductible." Accordingly, the IRS Guide states that, "[a]lthough there is no requirement to do so," houses of worship that seek recognition of their tax-exempt status may apply for a determination by the IRS.
    The Administration recognizes that houses of worship--churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, and other institutions--are integral to their communities and often serve as community centers for charity and social service. And the Administration is committed to strengthening government interaction with faith-based organizations to the benefit of their communities, consistent with First Amendment protections.
    When the President launched the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships, the White House noted:
    As the priorities of this Office are carried out, it will be done in a way that upholds the Constitution--by ensuring that both existing programs and new proposals are consistent with American laws and values. The separation of church and state is a principle President Obama supports firmly--not only because it protects our democracy, but also because it protects the plurality of America's religious and civic life.
    The President's Advisory Council for Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships provided recommendations to the Administration on improving government partnerships with faith-based groups. Many of these recommendations have been acted upon, and all are under review by the Administration. You can find the Council's report here.
    The President will continue to uphold the constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state in supporting faith-based and secular organizations alike in their efforts to do the most good for individuals and families in need.
    Joshua DuBois is Executive Director of the Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships
    • Like Like x 1
  14. LOL
    For this petition, currently 100-200 subscribers per hour flock in.
    So the other petition is to be overtaken in about ... er ... 1 day ...
  15. LOL2 & correction. Increase rate is 8581 signatures per day, based on these numbers:
    UT signatures
    13:44:00 621
    13:47:00 638
    13:50:00 657
    13:52:00 669
    13:57:00 698

    From previous experiences, this petition in its very early phase could gain more speed. Could get 100-500k signatures finally.
  16. Disambiguation Global Moderator

  17. Rate down to 400 sigs / day. Weekend?
    Still 10x higher than the one of Ram's petition.
  18. Numbers look not so good.
    Rates over the weekend went down to 500/day, but did not recover to 2500/day.
    Either the initial increase was due to all Bunkerites, Ex's and so on. Or today is like weekend and people take a day off to get a glimpse of the eclipse.
    Still, the other petition will be overtaken, but more likely in a week or so.
  19. If you want to increase the number of signers, rather than keeping scrupulous track of the signature rate, your energy will be better spent ginning up support for signatures on TUESDAY NIGHTS on social media, before, during, and after the airing of Scientology the Aftermath on A&E.

    Tweet @ people who tweet about the show, include the link to the petition, and encourage sharing.

    Try to get Leah or Mike to tweet the link to the petition on show night.

  20. I'm just observing.
    My conclusion atm is that without massive PR, this will not end up with 100-thousands of signatures as I thought in the first place.
    Writing letters directly to the IRS or politicians is probably more effective, as Tony Ortega or somebody else stated already.
    Nevertheless a good thing to gain attention or send a signal to kool-aiders.

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