Wisconsin GOP Senators Pass Stand-Alone Anti-Union Bill Without Democrats Present

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

Wherever it has been tried, it has worked. I know many don't believe that statement, but watch the video below.

And no, I won't be arguing the case ITT. Enjoy your hugfest.

Even FDR said public unions can not work. His reasons still stand today.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445

and here's a good reason to get government out of our lives. It works.

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

As always, the parents and children's needs and wants are ignored. It's all about the teacher.
What I want is the parent to have a real choice where they want to send their children, not a government monopoly that acts as all monopolies do.
Public education serves the State, not the child.

adhocrat said: ↑

Yep. That gives the consumer of education choices. And since public schools = government propaganda, then true education will make a comeback. Let's get some real competition into the system and education will flourish.

We've seen a lot of money thrown at education with only worsening results. How much proof do people need before they realize the system is broken? We wouldn't put up with this in other areas of life, why do so in something so incredibly important?

Forty years ago a book was published called Why Johnny Can't Read.
This is not a new problem. All we've had is more of the same failures. Let's try something different.

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

Trufax: Ad hominem attacks show the lack of a real explanation for the failure of the public education system.

More ad hom. I get all warm and fuzzy when the only answer you have is to resort to insults. Guess you're not going to grant me beingness.

I've noticed that liberals and socialists think the average person is too stupid to live their life without help from the oh so gracious socialist who is there to save them from themselves.
Bah

Again, you think so little of people that you can't imagine people living their own life free from the do gooders who feel good about themselves only when spending other people's money to get their dreams whims realized.

History doesn't support your contention. The literacy was much higher in the US before public education. In my experience poor people want the education for their children but the current system locks them out from the good schools because they don't live in the right neighborhoods.

Also, you do understand the only reason Applied Scholastics has an existence is because the US government granted them beingness? Without that it's unlikely they would be in business.

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

Why? We're venting our spleens here.

adhocrat said: ↑

Teaching someone basic literacy is not that hard. You can take a weekend class at the library and start teaching people to read and write with the blessings of the government and public library. People sometimes make it sound difficult. It isn't.

adhocrat said: ↑

Soon after I left scientology i wanted a way to actually help. I took a class at the local library to teach people in the community how to read and write. It took a weekend to do, then you were given a student to work with. I did this for a year or so, taught several people the basics of how to read. I don't know if the program is still in place though I have no reason to think it isn't.

Just did a search. The same program I did 20 years ago is still in use.

http://www.sjpl.org/partutor

And understand, i did not say teaching is easy, I said teaching literacy is not that hard. Many kids, given half a chance, learn on their own. One of my favorite writers talks about his mom reading the story to him, and just when the good parts were coming, she'd suddenly 'remember' she had something else to do, leaving the boy and the book, and a desire to know.

I came across a great saying by John Holt today:

People will learn, given a chance. It doesn't take force, it doesn't take the State, it takes a person wanting to know something about the world around them.

adhocrat said: ↑

Huh? Splain, please. SInce this thread is about teachers, I thought that's what the topic was. She's been saying that public education is a good thing, I say otherwise. How does the statement prove her point? Isn't her point that we need well paid government teachers, with proper credentials, in order for students to learn?

adhocrat said: ↑

There's something surreal about someone pointing a gun at my head and saying OBEY.

There's also something truly heart warming about the ad hom used by so many liberals on this board. They have nothing to add to the discussion, but boy are they ever good at insults. Did the public education system teach you that?

The graph earlier showed the decline of US educational results after the government took over. I showed the eighth grade test from 1890 that I dare say no current high school student could pass. My grandmother learned Latin and German in the first grade, something unheard of now.

Public education is a failure, and the reason is government can not deliver. They protect incompetent teachers, make absurd rules about what you can and can't teach, make the teachers into babysitters. Very expensive babysitters. They make national standards that ignore the actual kids in the school, but hey its all right, we've got rules to cover everything. Never mind that a kid brings a butter knife to school and gets kicked out for bringing a weapon to school.

Get a grip. The public education system is a disaster, and more of the same will only make for a bigger disaster.
There are too many reports of high school students who are functionally illiterate. That does not show public education in a good light.
And the liberal insistence that only government will solve a problem shows an incredible lack of respect for people.

Oh, it takes 12 years for government to deliver a good education, It took the private system 8 years to do the same thing. Go figure. The government is wasting 4 years of our lives by not giving us the education we could be getting.

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

You really didn't understand anything I wrote, did you?
Diversity means 7 billion different approaches. Our system allows one. You do the math.

adhocrat said: ↑

Gee, anonymous linked to a web site. care to tell me which one so I don't have to track it down?

adhocrat said: ↑

that's a wall of text. Was there something in particular you wanted to point out?
But if you were unsure, 7 billion divided by one equals 7 billion.
One divided by 7 billion is 1 seven billionth. So we have 6,999,999 choices taken away from us for the sake of the One True Choice.
Sorry, I don't want to practice that religion. It's as full of dogma as Catholicism or Scientology.

adhocrat said: ↑

Why? You'd tell me it wouldn't work, all my evidence is lies, nothing I say could possibly have any merit because you won't study economics or believe the evidence in front of you.

But if I had to mention the one possible solution that doesn't require totaling revamping society, then vouchers are a way to introduce some much needed competition into this stagnant system.

Ever wonder?

USSR = Union of Soviet Socialists Republic
Nazi = National Socialists.

Ever think that two of the most horrific regimes in modern history were both Socialist countries? Does that not cause you to pause and think, hmmm, maybe socialism doesn't work?

But, what's that you say, that isn't our socialism. Our socialism is kind and gentle and we won't hurt anyone
Unless they oppose our stealing their money, but they shouldn't oppose us because we're doing it for all the right reasons and we mean well.

Sorry, but no matter how you try to dance around it, socialism is premised on the use of force. Why you want that is beyond me but there it is, for all to see and gaze at in wide wonder.

We are heading into major inflation, and if we make it to hyperinflation, well...

When that happens, we will all be too miserable together to care about these discussions

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

Uh, I answered your question.

adhocrat said: ↑

Dude, why explain it in detail? Choice is what i want. The government is the anti choice.
I love the labels. Tea bag. But I've got a nice glass of red wine.
As for the socialism, what do you think this discussion is about? Public unions, a socialist concept if ever there was one. Even FDR knew why public unions will destroy us. You should perhaps reread FDR on why public unions can't work.

Are vouchers OK with you? Do you object to them, do you agree, think it's too easy? Competition is a good thing for consumers. Why not consumers of education?

And in other rants, my computer just did a software update and suddenly my screen is way too bright. Blinding. Now, how do those controls work...

adhocrat said: ↑

Uh huh, if you want to believe that, I'd like to sell you a bridge...
Hitler banned them because he had his Brown Shirts and other power bases, our government has co opted them as a means to stay in power. Still about the power base.

adhocrat said: ↑

One word. The Fed. All those inflationary prices are the direct result of the government inflating the money supply. Take a look at prices in terms of gold and a different story emerges. So again, you are directing your ire at the wrong target. The target is government, the only agency that can inflate the currency.

adhocrat said: ↑

is that what that was? Oh. Since you give me a ton of paper and say READ THIS and then claim it will solve the problem, gees, louise. Do you not understand that public education is pointing a gun at my head and saying OBEY. ? What part of violence do you not get? You say the best way to teach someone is through force. Force is force, violence and evil. Is that how we should teach our children. “Get what you want through force.”

You really are quite ignorant, aren't you? The poor are not doing well and you want more of the same shit. Right, that'll work.
And economies of scale? Really? Dude, that sort of corporate mentality is weird coming from you.

Let's see. Two totalitarian governments that murdered millions in the name of their ideology, which in both cases happens to be socialist. So, what exactly is the problem? Socialism and communism are kissing cousins, and while they implement things differently, both philosophies are totalitarian. Is that so hard to understand? Socialism and communism are totalitarianism.
Simple enough even for you.
Seems that Hitler, Stalin and Lenin had a clearer idea of what socialism is than you do. They knew the names of their countries reflected their totalitarian ideologies. Why don't you see it?

Whatever. I see that as saying public unions are a problem.
If you don't like FDR for it, then how about the economists?
If a trade union came into existence because of the greedy capitalist who want to keep the profit made by the worker's labor, how in God's name does that relate to government workers? There is no profit to be stolen from them, so where is the need for the union?

"I pledge allegiance to the flag..."

Say what? That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Allegiance to a fucking flag? Give me a break. And Im not Christian, so pledging under god doesn't work for me.

I refused to say the pledge 40 years ago in school because it is so blindingly stupid as to boggle the mind. Pledge allegiance to a Flag? Shi-
Sounds like the culties, pledging allegiance to Flag...oh, wait, that's a different Flag.

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

Let's see

Guns. You are ignoring the gun. Put the gun down, quit trying to force me to do your bidding and we can talk.
Again, to me the socialists think we all need daddies to help us along. i say BS. I don't want you as my daddy. I don't want anyone as my daddy. Why try to infantilize a population? Let us be adults not children of a state. Socialists want to replace God with State. I want neither, thank you. No big daddy in the sky, no big daddy in DC, no big daddy period. The beatniks left the building a long time ago.

As for fascism and socialism, I noticed you defined fascism but not socialism, so please define socialism, so I'll know what you are talking about.
Then explain to me why both countries used the name Socialist in their names.

adhocrat said: ↑

Again, the gun is the problem. Put the gun down and we can talk. But to force someone to do something they don't want to do is abhorrent. So why you want to force me?
Public schools can educate, I've never said otherwise. But that gun really is a problem. Why force all students into the same mold? That mold isn't a good fit for many and public education ignores them.

You assert again and again that public schools can do the job. Maybe so, but that gun used makes the whole thing moot. Violence is not the answer, but that's all you're offering.

adhocrat said: ↑

I haven't heard a definition of socialism yet, unless I missed it.

And the Gun that one poster thought bizarre is bizarre only in his not acknowledging that his schools are built on force. Many people don't want to pay for education twice, but that happens in the US. They pay their school taxes, then since the public schools don't deliver a good education they are forced to pay a second time.

In my area there are truant officers whose job is to force people to sit in a building for 6 hours a day being bored by a teacher who doesn't understand the subject, can't be fired and doesn't give a rat's ass about her responsiilities.
And don't think I am demeaning that person. She is responding to the incentives she's offered. In Zimbardo's terms she is a good apple in a bad barrel. This is how I think of most scientologists. Most of the ones I knew were good people, wanting to do the right thing, but being seriously misled by their leaders. Same with socialism. Most socialists I know want the same basics things we all do, but the means are what i object to, and what they object to about me.

But, my basic premise comes down to the simple fact that violence is needed for a socialist system to operate but not for a free market system. Or perhaps 'less violence is needed for a free market than for a socialist one.' The basic reason being, all associations in a free market are voluntary, while in a socialist world, there are forced associations.

Incentives matter, people. If the government says "Here, take this money, it's good for you" they are both infantilizing one group and plundering another. Is that really what you want?

Thomas Jefferson: “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.”

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

Dude, can you read?

adhocrat said: ↑

I was asking for his definition of socialism. Unless I know how HE defines it, I don't know what he's talking about.

Did you miss the part about having to pay twice? Certainly you can opt out of the educational system, but the price is to pay twice. And THAT is enforced at the point of a gun.

Actually, there is a perfectly fine private fire service in the US. It's called Rural/Metro. They provided my service for years.
Road builders, well you do know there have been private roads in the US from the beginning. Paid by those who actually use the road. Ie, not forced by taxes, ie, no gun needed to secure revenues. And oddly enough, toll roads are coming back as a means to relieve congestion.

Do you also understand that the purpose of the US Interstate Highway system was military? That it would be good for business was simply lagniappe.

adhocrat said: ↑

That doesn't answer the question now does it? Explain why the word socialist appears in both names. I want your explanation, not fucking retarded insults.

adhocrat said: ↑

Or, the fact that socialism as a concept is morally bankrupt has never occurred to you.
In point of fact, Nazi Germany and the USSR were the paragons of their respective socialist ideologies, and the results are the same results anyone will get using the same bad barrel.

adhocrat said: ↑

yep, that's me, dumber than a redneck.

adhocrat said: ↑

A hit, a very palpable hit.
lol

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

And oddly enough, the founding fathers are where my ideas came from. Imagine that. And here I am getting called every name in the book.

(looks out the window-don't see no DEA agents---hope they aren't hiding in the bushes again.)

adhocrat said: ↑

I don't want corporate capitalism, called merchantalism back in the day, any more than the others posting here want it. I don't want corporate welfare. It's the antithesis of a free market.

As for the Fed, or a national bank, all they are is the supreme price fixer, fixing the price of the interest rate. And they also create all the inflation in our system.

and to those who say I'd leave all those people there to die I say get a grip. If that happens, then the system is a failure and you change it. But there is ample evidence to show that free markets means prosperous citizens.

adhocrat said: ↑

Thanks

adhocrat said: ↑

it'd be an improvement, certainly.

adhocrat said: ↑

spoil sport

HOC · Mar 24, 2011

Any real reason to duping all this?

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

^Guess it wasn't better 2nd time around...

Anonymous said: ↑

Can you imagine if Adhocrat were still in the Cult, posting pro-scientology messages online all night?

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

whosit said: ↑

That's right, FIRE them-you can always find someone else to take the job.

Two airliners landed at Reagan National Airport near Washington without control tower clearance because the air traffic supervisor was asleep, safety and aviation officials said Wednesday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42237593/ns/travel-business_travel/

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

And oddly enough, the founding fathers are where my ideas came from.

Bull-fucking-shit. The saddest thing is that you actually think you are making a valid argument with this ‘appeal to authority’ stunt. Same thing when you reached for FDR a few posts back. But providing dox to show that the founding fathers would have tolerated your 'privatise the public schools' or 'bust the unions' crap – well that aint’t going happen. Dox or STFU.

And seriously mate, when you make comments like these you justify fully the mockery you have received.

Rufus T Firefly · Mar 24, 2011

It was not impossible to build Rapture at the bottom of the sea. It was impossible to build it anywhere else.

adhocrat · Mar 24, 2011

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
i must have pissed someone off really good, eh?

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

adhocrat said: ↑

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
i must have pissed someone off really good, eh?

o gawd, somebody please end this now

Char. Limit · Mar 24, 2011

I think Adhocrat has a valid point, even though I don't agree with his explanation of said point. Our public schools are not doing all that well. You can tell this by the fact that many other countries are doing a lot better than us. And you know, one solution could be to increase home-schooling and private schooling, but most people don't want to pay for school taxes and the expenses of home-schooling/private school.

I figure that's part of your point, Adhocrat?

Anonymous · Mar 24, 2011

Char. Limit said: ↑

And you know, one solution could be to increase home-schooling and private schooling, but most people don't want to pay for school taxes and the expenses of home-schooling/private school.

That's were the reality of big government force comes in. Those who use it should pay. Those that don't should not. There should be an option. There isn't an option. Pay or big brother's going to kick in your door with a fucking SWAT team.

That's what the lefties stand for.

je suis · Mar 24, 2011

That's were the reality of big government force comes in. Those who use it should pay. Those that don't should not. There should be an option. There isn't an option. Pay or big brother's going to kick in your door with a fucking SWAT team.

That's what the lefties stand for.

The Gov't offers the best that people are willing to pay for. If you want better then either
1) get people to pay more and thereby get more
2) you don't like shopping at Wal-Mart, pay the extra to go to __________

that's what the Oligarchs want the system to be.

if you carefully check many of the dox posted, you'll find that we do more than nearly any other nation on the planet.

keep in mind that most countries "cut" their students just a pro team does. if at age 12 (for example), you aren't Uni material, then you move to a different track. in U.S. they take the approach that any/all belong on any track that want.

good idea but way more expensive than "Cut System." I like that people have choice to move into whatever track they want, when they want.

LocalSP · Mar 25, 2011

Yeah the Corporations really need tax breaks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ds-paying-tax-entirely-dodges-incentives.html

Mitsu Too · Mar 25, 2011

In the article above;
"GE has hired a string of lobbyists to ensure it pays as little tax as possible including one law firm made up for former officials from the IRS, the Treasury and almost all the tax committees in Congress.

Over the last five years records show that the firm has chalked up $26billion profits - but received a net benefit from the IRS to the tune of $4.1billion.

GE claims its tax strategy is necessary to help it survive in a competitive global environment but critics say the loopholes are little more than ‘corporate welfare’. "

OK I know I'm suffering from the flu and my brain feels like mush but am I reading this right? They make a shit ton of money, pay no income tax at all AND the taxpayers give them more money because some f'ing loophole says they should be refunded????????

OK shoot me now because we are not only being screwed but instead of us getting paid for it we pay them for the priviledge of getting f'ucked.

Please oh please Capitalist tell me on what planet that this is right.

I do wish to moderate one thing. Yes I guess they do create jobs...for lobbyist, lawyers and ex employees of the government who worked for the IRS, etc. Oh shit wait. That is part of if you don't like a public sector job go get a real job you lazy bums in the private sector. I guess it is better to be the one doing the screwing than the one getting screwed. Never mind. BAck to regular programming.

Xenu Is Lord · Mar 25, 2011

I love the asshole in this video says "How many people died in the 2nd world war fighting socialism" Everyone knows except for Nazi revisionist that is not the case. By the way FDR was wrong on this issue and it has been proven to be the case for over 50 years. Can't be right all the time

Anonymous · Mar 25, 2011

Mitsu Too said: ↑

Please oh please Capitalist tell me on what planet that this is right.

It is clearly because of the oppressive unions that poor GE needs that money.

adhocrat · Mar 25, 2011

merchantalism ≠ free market
corporate capitalism = merchantalism, or government approval, a top down approach
free market = free minds and free markets in voluntary association, a bottom up approach

Char. Limit · Mar 25, 2011

Xenu Is Lord said: ↑

I love the asshole in this video says "How many people died in the 2nd world war fighting socialism" Everyone knows except for Nazi revisionist that is not the case. By the way FDR was wrong on this issue and it has been proven to be the case for over 50 years. Can't be right all the time

Hey, a lot of people DID die in the 2nd World War fighting socialism. Namely, the Nazis fighting on the eastern front.

Anonymous · Mar 25, 2011

NOT TO WORRY LOVERS OF THE LAISSEZ-FAIRE!
Corporate Profits At All-Time High As Recovery Stumbles

adhocrat · Mar 25, 2011

Anonymous said: ↑

NOT TO WORRY LOVERS OF THE LAISSEZ-FAIRE!
Corporate Profits At All-Time High As Recovery Stumbles

since you missed my point the first time around
Laissez-faire ≠ corporate capitalism
Laissez-faire ≠ merchantalism
laissez faire = free markets

eddieVroom · Mar 25, 2011

"MADISON — The Wisconsin law taking away collective bargaining rights that a court had ordered not to be published by the secretary of state has been published instead by the Legislative Reference Bureau.
The action was noted on the Legislature's home page Friday. It's not immediately clear whether the publication has the force of law. But if legally published, the law takes effect Saturday.

A judge last week issued a temporary restraining order blocking Secretary of State Doug La Follette from publishing the law."

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ive-bargaining-law-published?odyssey=nav|head

Anonymous · Mar 25, 2011

"adhocrat said: ↑

since you missed my point the first time around
Laissez-faire ≠ corporate capitalism
Laissez-faire ≠ merchantalism
laissez faire = free markets

= ?

Mitsu Too · Mar 26, 2011

Don't know how I missed this then but the Koch Brothers have been very busy with their agenda for a loing time.

This is the New York Times article and the special invite letter to the elite.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/us/politics/20koch.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Rockyj · Mar 30, 2011

Awesome!

Anonymous · Mar 30, 2011

subgenius · May 26, 2011

Judge voids controversial Wisconsin union law

MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) – A Wisconsin judge on Thursday voided a controversial Republican-backed law restricting the collective bargaining rights of public sector unions in the state.
Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi, who was appointed by a Republican governor, said Republican state lawmakers who passed the law in March had violated the state's open meetings law in rushing the legislation through amid massive public protests at the state Capitol.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110526...lYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDanVkZ2V2b2lkc2Nv

Orson · May 26, 2011

Nice.

(sorry Ann)

Anonymous · May 26, 2011

http://scottwalkerwatch.com/
Scott is a scumbag

Rockyj · May 26, 2011

Scott Walker = Kock Brothers = Soon to be Ex-Governor!

lulzgasm · May 26, 2011

Rockyj said: ↑

Scott Walker = Kock Brothers = Soon to be Ex-Governor!

And another Banksta bootlicker is about to bite the dust.
Now if only Kasich in Ohio can get the boot out the door, too.

subgenius · May 26, 2011

"Slave driver the tables are turning
Catch a fire, ya gonna get burned."
-Bob Marley

frenobulax · May 27, 2011

My granduata 3 an she sing get up standup [marley]!

Anonymous · May 30, 2011

frenobulax said: ↑

My granduata 3 an she sing get up standup [marley]!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTNRHzX_YJU

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